The entire world enslaved women, then moved on to colonization and slavery of indigenous people and people of color. White Patriarchy is one beast, one colonizer, with two heads. It’s maddening. And so evil. And SO hard to get anyone to see.
Stay at home moms work 80-100 hours a week, usually without a single day off or sick day for decades on end. Usually while being abused AND cheated on. The end prize is to be told it’s ALL HIS, including the kids, you did “nothing”. AND it’s often not a choice, many mothers find the economy, a special needs child, health problems, or abuse and threats to harm kids FORCE her to be a stay at home parent against her will. Family Courts are a nightmare for women and children.
I love love love Kiki B/The Uppity Negress! I recommend her on Reddit all the time! And I recommend Zawn all the time. The two together is 🔥!! Thank you both so much for helping so many.
I listened to this on Apple. I finally figured out what “single married mother” means. I was still surprised that mothers who divorce have LESS work than when they were single married mothers. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised after all I’ve seen and heard.
I also need to renew my journal practice. I learned that I may also be trauma dumping here.
I’m sure there’s a better way I can engage with this site.
Once again. . . Excellent episode and article.
I just discovered burgnbougie on YouTube. I wonder if that algorithm is less restrictive than others.
Thank you, Zawn. I really respect you and your work. These spaces weren’t around in the 90’s when o went though a lot of stuff. I thought it was me. Turns out it wasn’t. I’m just so glad to have this space.
Yesssss 2 of my favorite feminist writers/philosophers in one podcast! This was everything. An episode that I actually wish was longer!
PS, IJS, if you ever want to do a "Meet and Greet" in Atlanta, I'd be interested in attending. And yes, I am very suspicious of any White person in Atlanta who has few Black friends. You don't even need to make a deliberate effort to find Black people and make Black friends here. I grew up in Chicago (more reasons why I love Kiki), and I think in the North, it is much easier for White people to completely segregate themselves from BIPOC. A White person can go their whole life without any BIPOC friends very easily. They won't even encounter BIPOC except maybe as the "help" or the cashier. But perhaps this would be a better conversation in person at a Meet and Greet...
True about northern segregation; it surprised me how white New England was, and how segregated, when I first went there in the late 1970s and 1980s. Was very happy to go back to ATL.
Whenever my CHI friends come down to ATL to visit me, they are pleasantly surprised at how many Black people are here. Depending on what area you're in, you can go a few days without seeing any White people.
Is anyone else made really uncomfortable by the whole ‘pick me girl’ thing? It seems like another face of women turning on women to me. It strikes me like the ‘Karen’ meme, it starts out with something useful to say and, because we live in Patriarchy, morphs into what feels like another misogynist insult. Isn’t a pick me girl exactly what we’re all trained to be? It just feels like a version of I’m-not-like-her that doesn’t sit well with me. Thoughts?
This is a fair criticism. I have mixed feelings about the term. I feel that we need a term to refer to male-identified women, and pick-me is definitely needlessly inflammatory (just as Karen should really just be "racist").
I almost never hear Karen used to call out racism, even though it’s my understanding that was the original source of the name. I hear it used to silence any complaint from any woman (including black women) especially in a public space. It’s gone from a way to pull up the specific way white women participate in racism to a way to shame any woman who doesn’t accept poor treatment.
I’ve never heard ‘pick me’ used in any way but to draw a firm line between the self and other women who are, by implication, not as valuable as the self. It strikes me as exactly the same as ‘I’m not like other girls (who are all pick me’s).”
I also think that all of us are trained from birth to be male identified. So, by default I think that would make us all ‘pick me’s’ until something happens to change our programming. Usually what happens is that we grow up. Pick me girls become wine moms become pissed off, overworked, disillusioned, deeply sad adult women. We then call them Karens for complaining.
This was a great episode and I was so excited to learn more about Kiki Bryant’s work. I had first seen her on Threads and followed her when I realized that there were times that her words made me uncomfortable and showed me that there was learning for me to do (I had the same reaction to this substack too initially). I can’t wait to pick up one of her books!
This is the podcast duo I've been waiting for!
I am sooooooo excited for this. I loved the labor digger post!
It was as amazing as I hoped it would be. Great job Kiki and Zawn. A part two would be so good!
OHHHHHMIGAWD YOU GOT KIKI ON THE SHOW!! Cannot WAIT to listen to this episode, she is a freaking icon 🤩
The entire world enslaved women, then moved on to colonization and slavery of indigenous people and people of color. White Patriarchy is one beast, one colonizer, with two heads. It’s maddening. And so evil. And SO hard to get anyone to see.
Autistic women see reality from early childhood. Unfortunately that makes us targets. Be safe.
Stay at home moms work 80-100 hours a week, usually without a single day off or sick day for decades on end. Usually while being abused AND cheated on. The end prize is to be told it’s ALL HIS, including the kids, you did “nothing”. AND it’s often not a choice, many mothers find the economy, a special needs child, health problems, or abuse and threats to harm kids FORCE her to be a stay at home parent against her will. Family Courts are a nightmare for women and children.
I love love love Kiki B/The Uppity Negress! I recommend her on Reddit all the time! And I recommend Zawn all the time. The two together is 🔥!! Thank you both so much for helping so many.
Temporarily enchanted pick me! Like Steinbecks temporarily displaced millionaires.
I listened to this on Apple. I finally figured out what “single married mother” means. I was still surprised that mothers who divorce have LESS work than when they were single married mothers. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised after all I’ve seen and heard.
I also need to renew my journal practice. I learned that I may also be trauma dumping here.
I’m sure there’s a better way I can engage with this site.
Once again. . . Excellent episode and article.
I just discovered burgnbougie on YouTube. I wonder if that algorithm is less restrictive than others.
Your comments are always welcome. I don't think you are trauma dumping, but even if you were, this is totally fine here.
Thank you, Zawn. I really respect you and your work. These spaces weren’t around in the 90’s when o went though a lot of stuff. I thought it was me. Turns out it wasn’t. I’m just so glad to have this space.
Yesssss 2 of my favorite feminist writers/philosophers in one podcast! This was everything. An episode that I actually wish was longer!
PS, IJS, if you ever want to do a "Meet and Greet" in Atlanta, I'd be interested in attending. And yes, I am very suspicious of any White person in Atlanta who has few Black friends. You don't even need to make a deliberate effort to find Black people and make Black friends here. I grew up in Chicago (more reasons why I love Kiki), and I think in the North, it is much easier for White people to completely segregate themselves from BIPOC. A White person can go their whole life without any BIPOC friends very easily. They won't even encounter BIPOC except maybe as the "help" or the cashier. But perhaps this would be a better conversation in person at a Meet and Greet...
True about northern segregation; it surprised me how white New England was, and how segregated, when I first went there in the late 1970s and 1980s. Was very happy to go back to ATL.
Whenever my CHI friends come down to ATL to visit me, they are pleasantly surprised at how many Black people are here. Depending on what area you're in, you can go a few days without seeing any White people.
An atl meet n great would be so fun.
Are you in the Liberating Motherhood group? We've had a couple of Atlanta meet-ups!
On facebook you mean? No, I haven't joined (yet). I guess I oughta!
Is anyone else made really uncomfortable by the whole ‘pick me girl’ thing? It seems like another face of women turning on women to me. It strikes me like the ‘Karen’ meme, it starts out with something useful to say and, because we live in Patriarchy, morphs into what feels like another misogynist insult. Isn’t a pick me girl exactly what we’re all trained to be? It just feels like a version of I’m-not-like-her that doesn’t sit well with me. Thoughts?
This is a fair criticism. I have mixed feelings about the term. I feel that we need a term to refer to male-identified women, and pick-me is definitely needlessly inflammatory (just as Karen should really just be "racist").
I almost never hear Karen used to call out racism, even though it’s my understanding that was the original source of the name. I hear it used to silence any complaint from any woman (including black women) especially in a public space. It’s gone from a way to pull up the specific way white women participate in racism to a way to shame any woman who doesn’t accept poor treatment.
I’ve never heard ‘pick me’ used in any way but to draw a firm line between the self and other women who are, by implication, not as valuable as the self. It strikes me as exactly the same as ‘I’m not like other girls (who are all pick me’s).”
I also think that all of us are trained from birth to be male identified. So, by default I think that would make us all ‘pick me’s’ until something happens to change our programming. Usually what happens is that we grow up. Pick me girls become wine moms become pissed off, overworked, disillusioned, deeply sad adult women. We then call them Karens for complaining.
Love the part about decentering men! I’m currently at that juncture in my life.
This was a great episode and I was so excited to learn more about Kiki Bryant’s work. I had first seen her on Threads and followed her when I realized that there were times that her words made me uncomfortable and showed me that there was learning for me to do (I had the same reaction to this substack too initially). I can’t wait to pick up one of her books!