A reader thinks she avoided gender socialization with her child, but also believes that liking pink and other stereotypically feminine behaviors are innate.
I think you're grossly misunderstanding a LOT of what I have written here.
Gender socialization does not come solely from parents. So gendered behavior is not necessarily a parents' fault.
More importantly, we live in a world in which gender socialization is rampant. It's everywhere and impossible to avoid. So it makes no sense to conclude that it is innate before we have removed the cultural aspects.
This is like concluding that lung cancer must be innate and unavoidable when 100% of the population smokes.
Also, why would we only believe children about interests that are innate?
I like crackers. There's not a cracker-liking gene. So am I lying? This is such a bizarre argument.
People like what they like for so many complicated reasons. But the example you selected--wearing dresses--is especially silly given that dresses are indeed a completely cultural construct and have been a part of boys' wardrobes until very recently. So has evolution changed in 100 years? Was the cultural socialization of the past wrong? I refuse to believe that you actually think your daughter likes dresses because her genes told her to. That's absurd.
When we ascribe gender roles to playing with dolls or pretend cooking or cleaning, we tell kids that parenting and household tasks are things only women do. All kids should be exposed to dolls, play kitchens, and toy brooms! It's detrimental to both girls and boys to tell them this is for girls only.
By telling girls OR boys that a toy is "girly" is also telling our kids that being a girl is bad or less desirable. Typically feminine interests are not a bad thing for girls or boys and we don't want to ascribe negative, weak, or less important characteristics to "girly" interests. Its ok to love to dress up and go to the salon and you can still be feminist af.
YES thank you so much for writing this Zawn. It always amazes and dismays me how many people who I respect turn out to believe this. This is so useful, hopeful and well articulated.
This is very interesting to me. I'm not a parent so I have only a hint of an idea of how difficult it is to maintain gender-neutral practices with kids. I'm incredibly fortunate that I grew up with schools that didn't assume what I could or couldn't do based on my gender. I loved math and was encouraged and I don't remember ever getting any pushback on that--mostly encouragement from several great teachers at various levels.
At home though... I think my Mom was initially dedicated to trying to make sure I wasn't indoctrinated into "girly" stuff. My brother and I had the same haircuts and were sometimes mistaken for two boys. Mom got me pants and shorts and practical clothes and wanted me to run around outside. A lot of "girly" stuff fell into the "forbidden" category: no nail polish, no makeup, no heels. A wide range of things became an ongoing battlefield: there were fights about me wanting to grow my hair past my earlobes, about wanting to wear skirts (they were more comfortable for me), about not running around outside, about wanting to learn to bake (I made a mess), about wanting to play with dolls. I'm not suggesting that "girl" stuff is innate, only that many things coded "girly" were things I wanted to do (as a female child), and that they were sources of contention. Partly as a result of this, I've had a very fraught relationship with how/whether/when it is ok to perform "traditional femininity" even when sometimes things like wearing skirts are things that I legitimately inherently want to do.
This is so interesting because it speaks to a lot of what I talk about here. The problem in your childhood (aside from the control and lack of consent) is that your parents arbitrarily decided certain things are gender neutral and certain things aren't. It's aggressive gender socialization, just manifesting in a different way
Thank you so much for writing about this. Lately, I have seen and heard a lot about the myth that "women are nurturers and men are providers" from women and in women's groups. It drives me crazy and fuels a lot of harmful stereotypes that reinforce patriarchy.
Here are some comments I read in my local moms group last night in response to basically the question of: (I've summarized it because the OP is lengthy.)
"Can anyone explain to me why the mama is nearly always the default parent? All of the personal preferences, shopping, meals, appointments (kids and pets), schedules, etc. are automatically 💯 on me. Sure he could take a kid to the doctor if he had to but I would have to make the appointment and send him the address.
Why?"
Responses:
The first comment was a reminder to women of your "place" in the home and society meme that shows a smiling woman in the kitchen making dinner while her smiling husband hugs her from behind. The meme read:
"I may be the default parent but he is the default provider.
he is the reason we have a house to call a home, and the reason we go to bed with full bellies and happy hearts.
he is the reason we can vacation together as a family and create special memories.
he is the reason why we are safe, secure, and happy."
"It sounds so cliche but I swear it’s a man thing haha. My husband is literally the best dad in the world. He works full time and does so much around the house too (due to some chronic issues I have that make it hard to do physical stuff) but if he has to get the kids ready he literally asks me where their clothes are 😂🤦🏻♀️ I’m like in the same exact drawer they have been in for 4 years haha. If he makes them breakfast he will say well I don’t know what they like 😂 like you’ve eaten 3 meals a day with them for 4 years haha. He says he has so much on his mind he doesn’t listen to the little details. I don’t complain I just laugh because it’s almost comical when it doesn’t drive me bonkers. But yes I completely understand!"
"In our household, my husband naturally takes on all the “project-based” work like repairing broken things, building the shed, dealing with cars, installing a new printer, etc. and I naturally take on the “maintenance” jobs, like laundry, meal planning, processing mail, managing school emails and kid activities, etc.
I don’t find it necessary for both of us to know everything that the other one does. He doesn’t know where the kids’ dance clothes are, but I couldn’t find the electric drill or leaf blower. Lol we just both manage different household domains." Notice the naturally part.
"I appreciate this positive understanding of the roles we naturally gravitate towards."
"I think good guys dont always "see" things that need to be done or handled, they need to be asked. I hope you can all have grace for each other."
Another alleged "good guy."
"As a mom our brains never shut off. We are always constantly thinking about our children, their needs, their schedules, how we are going to make things work etc. It’s exhausting and draining but it legit never stops. I think so often we are just in our own heads and know what we need done and we take the initiative to do it ourselves. I truly do not believe fathers are wired the same way. My husband is an incredible dad and very hard worker but I literally lost it on him lately for the same stuff. But, also he doesn’t know what’s going on in my mind at all times. I just get so frustrated like I shouldn’t have to tell you these things. We assume that they should automatically be aligned with our brains but I just don’t think it works that way for them. 😭"
This isn't meant to shame as there are no names or details to identify the commenters. I posted all of these comments to show how prevalent these old gender roles still are. The worst ones (tradwife) were deleted by today. I took a screenshot of the meme last night because I knew it would be deleted based on the feedback that she was getting.
Maybe someone will see themselves in these comments and either recognize it's not naturally this way or feel validated that they no longer buy the patriarchally imposed gender roles as "natural."
My experience is identical. The idea that kids aren't getting aggressive, constant, unavoidable gender socialization in this toxic stew is just ludicrous.
Ugh! This isn't surprising but is still incredibly frustrating. It's brainwashing by the patriarchy at its finest. Several of the commenters clearly dislike their husbands' unequal participation but try to justify it to keep from rocking the boat (good luck).
When I taught a Psychology of Women course, it took me 17 weeks to undo at least some of the brainwashing and get my students to think critically about gender. Most of the men who took the class weren't happy. That was especially true in a graduate class at a private university. It got ugly and I had to explain myself to the head of the program who asked if I hated men (!!) and then by the head of the department who asked why I taught the class from a feminist perspective. He had no clue how to answer when I pointed out that "from a feminist perspective" was how the course was described in the handbook. LOL
One of the women took that graduate course with her fiance (he was a total jerk). She started noticing and getting angry about how much extra household chores she did compared to him but ultimately decided that since she didn't want to be mad at him, she was going to ignore all she learned in the course. I suspect that's what many of the responders were doing too: trying to pretend things aren't unfair and they're fine.
It's an uphill climb trying to educate people about feminism and gender equity, particularly since our educational institutions teach very, very little about women in general and sexism in particular.
Yes! Thanks for your work on this. Sucks you had that experience with your class. I find that when I point out men’s abusive behavior I’m asked by more women than not “why do you hate men?”
Exactly! My face must've been something to see when the program head asked if I hated men because he immediately backtracked. LOL. I always find it somewhat amusing that I see an unusually large number of men in my counseling practice. What do you know? The ones who want to do the work don't find me threatening nor do they believe I hate men. They feel seen.
I’m glad to hear confirmation that there are men who truly want to learn. It’s hard work for the women involved but it’s important. Thank you again. Keep on keeping on.
It's that so many men hate women and are so limited they imagine we feel the same. They can't comprehend how we see the behavior as distinct and as the root cause because we suffer from its impacts all the time.
Sounds like you rooted out a bunch of performative allies, also known as the self-identified "nice guys" Zawn talks about. They're feminists until women upset the status quo or usurp their power in any way. They're feminists insofar as they're comfortable with the results.
You mentioned "in our efforts to do away with gender programming, we are told not to notice any patterns which are huge..."
This is besides the point because those "huge" patterns you are observing(and your experiences) do not exist in vaccum. The socialization is agressive(so aggressive that girls are maimed & punished if they do not comply to gender stereotypes in several parts of this world), rampant and everywhere and begins before children are born. The point being we have no way of attributing these "huge differences" to "innate" differences until the socialization ceases which probably will not stop anytime soon because it benefits men & boys. Noone usually keeps telling girls the biological realities of child birth but they are told how Math & Computers are for boys. The former is a biological reality that need not be reiterated but patriarchy knows the latter has to be reiterated and sold over and over because girls can be excellent at Math & computer science. Women were actually the first programmers, compiler inventors and code breakers. They wrote the programming for space explorations before an agressive compaign to kick women out of programming & computer science began. As for science finally revealing reasons behind gender differences, "science" until recently has always maintained that gender differences are innate & immutable. Science of gender difference research is highly political in nature. It's only recently that science began to reveal that differences between women and men are miniscule compared to differences between two individuals. Also, Zawn's article does not imply that we congratulate the parents of a boy playing with dolls for doing away with gender socialization. It only says that we do not hold any value judgment or attribute his preference to gender irrespective of he playing with dolls or trains/truck. I think it would be infinitely amazing to see the effects of a world without gender socialization. That would definitely will have boys behaving in stereotypical
"feminine" ways and girls being rambunctious. I am certain of it because I grew up seeing rambunctious girls being punished and feminine boys shamed for being "sissy". And the powers that be (religious & political, financial giants) don't want that world to come into existence.
I am a mum of 4, 2 boys and 2 girls but my middle 2 (older a girl and younger a boy are very close in age). They played together and still do. They have a toy kitchen that is both of theirs, a Barbie house they both play with, dinosaurs and cars they both play. The girl plays footy as well as cheerleading and the boy plays footy but loves dancing. If he dressed in a tutu like his sister people think it's weird but if she was in a fireman costume people are like yeah girls can be anything!! And I hate this for him. He loves his dancing but is aware people say things (including his dad) and gets embarrassed often - he wouldn't even join the school dance group because of teasing. But when she plays footy everyone cheers for her taking on the boys sport.
I think if the things people liked we're not gendered so much there wouldnt be as much confusion with genders as there is now. You can be a boy who likes dance and pink or wearing dresses. And you can be a girl who likes footy and beer and loose clothes. Those things shouldn't change your gender as your gender shouldn't make a difference to what you like.
You're so right. We cheer on girls for doing "boy" things because those are coded as the "desirable" things but shame boys for liking the "undesirable" female coded things. A boy in an apron making cookies in a play kitchen? How terrible! A girl with a toy power drill? You go, #girlboss!
But the writer isn't teaching/demonstrating even Gender Nonconformity.
It has ALWAYS been at least moderately "ok" (if a little "eccentric") for girls to be interested in Boy Things.
Calling traditionally "masculine coded" things "gender neutral" is still teaching your daughter that there are two genders. It's just that instead of "boy" and "girl," you're using the words "neutral" and "unacceptable." This is exactly the same patriarchy, and using different words doesn't change that you are giving daughters the message that "girl" things (and, by extension, BEING a girl) are inferior.
Yes, exactly! It's a somewhat analogous thought practice to white people claiming to be "color blind." Which is not the same as anti-racist because it doesn't deal with the discrepancies and power imbalances that exist due to racism. Without that lens, it can just reinforce the existing hierarchies as "natural."
Like every other big part of parenting, you’re not really going to get it just right until you process your own shit. But you can try hard and learn lots.
My 3yo daughter had long messy hair - just like mom! Recently her 6yo brother cut it ALL and now she has a short pageboy. I was proud of how I handled it - I kept my sadness about her hair to myself, we talked about consent (she asked him to), she loves the new look, scissors are dangerous, etc etc. a few days later a server referred to her as a boy and I….corrected the server. OMG, I’m still embarrassed. And I’m still a feminist and still trying to teach both my kids, and myself, how to think and act outside the patriarchy.
Are you embarrassed because your daughter didn't want it to be explained? I think it may not be such a bad thing as it can help reinforce that hair length doesn't determine someone's gender. But I can also understand how an interaction like that brings up all those complicated feelings and knee-jerk responses. It's admirable that you are being so conscious and working actively not to reinforce patriarchal conditioning.
I have fraternal twin girls with an older brother. I chose to dress my daughters alike, which I probably would not have done had they been identical. Surprisingly they're still into it- probably because it's the only similarity, they are like night and day. But it's proven to be an interesting crash course in public perception and gender stereotypes.
Another aspect I noticed is that the letter writer assumed the masculine equals gender neutral. She dressed her in boy's clothes, only encouraged masculine (stereotypically) interests, etc. Male is not gender neutral. She is absolutely pulling gender roles into her house through what is okay and not okay, it's just reversed from average. Letting children play with whatever they like (including things stereotypical to their gender) is the only way to not put gender into your home.
When I had my daughter, I dressed her entirely in neutral or “boy” clothes, gave her stuffed animals instead of dolls, never put her in dresses or pink. Then I realised that I was making a gendered choice, by not engaging with any of the “girl” stuff. We now talk about how there is no such thing as “boy” or “girl” clothing or toys, just clothing and toys. My kid went through the princesses and mermaids thing, and has landed as her own unique self.
I know you have addressed raising sons, and I have a question for when kids get older (my son is 13). I want him to be aware of sexism so he can call it out. I have encouraged him to notice when boys are talking over girls and to call it out (and to notice it in himself). Do you think it's better not to say "society is going to tell you it's ok to talk over girls because you're a boy"? Should I leave it more neutral? I want him to understand that men have to help bring down patriarchy, but I don't want to remind him of his gender if that is unhelpful! 😱
I think you're grossly misunderstanding a LOT of what I have written here.
Gender socialization does not come solely from parents. So gendered behavior is not necessarily a parents' fault.
More importantly, we live in a world in which gender socialization is rampant. It's everywhere and impossible to avoid. So it makes no sense to conclude that it is innate before we have removed the cultural aspects.
This is like concluding that lung cancer must be innate and unavoidable when 100% of the population smokes.
Also, why would we only believe children about interests that are innate?
I like crackers. There's not a cracker-liking gene. So am I lying? This is such a bizarre argument.
People like what they like for so many complicated reasons. But the example you selected--wearing dresses--is especially silly given that dresses are indeed a completely cultural construct and have been a part of boys' wardrobes until very recently. So has evolution changed in 100 years? Was the cultural socialization of the past wrong? I refuse to believe that you actually think your daughter likes dresses because her genes told her to. That's absurd.
When we ascribe gender roles to playing with dolls or pretend cooking or cleaning, we tell kids that parenting and household tasks are things only women do. All kids should be exposed to dolls, play kitchens, and toy brooms! It's detrimental to both girls and boys to tell them this is for girls only.
By telling girls OR boys that a toy is "girly" is also telling our kids that being a girl is bad or less desirable. Typically feminine interests are not a bad thing for girls or boys and we don't want to ascribe negative, weak, or less important characteristics to "girly" interests. Its ok to love to dress up and go to the salon and you can still be feminist af.
100% this. All interests are for all genders.
YES thank you so much for writing this Zawn. It always amazes and dismays me how many people who I respect turn out to believe this. This is so useful, hopeful and well articulated.
This is very interesting to me. I'm not a parent so I have only a hint of an idea of how difficult it is to maintain gender-neutral practices with kids. I'm incredibly fortunate that I grew up with schools that didn't assume what I could or couldn't do based on my gender. I loved math and was encouraged and I don't remember ever getting any pushback on that--mostly encouragement from several great teachers at various levels.
At home though... I think my Mom was initially dedicated to trying to make sure I wasn't indoctrinated into "girly" stuff. My brother and I had the same haircuts and were sometimes mistaken for two boys. Mom got me pants and shorts and practical clothes and wanted me to run around outside. A lot of "girly" stuff fell into the "forbidden" category: no nail polish, no makeup, no heels. A wide range of things became an ongoing battlefield: there were fights about me wanting to grow my hair past my earlobes, about wanting to wear skirts (they were more comfortable for me), about not running around outside, about wanting to learn to bake (I made a mess), about wanting to play with dolls. I'm not suggesting that "girl" stuff is innate, only that many things coded "girly" were things I wanted to do (as a female child), and that they were sources of contention. Partly as a result of this, I've had a very fraught relationship with how/whether/when it is ok to perform "traditional femininity" even when sometimes things like wearing skirts are things that I legitimately inherently want to do.
This is so interesting because it speaks to a lot of what I talk about here. The problem in your childhood (aside from the control and lack of consent) is that your parents arbitrarily decided certain things are gender neutral and certain things aren't. It's aggressive gender socialization, just manifesting in a different way
Thank you so much for writing about this. Lately, I have seen and heard a lot about the myth that "women are nurturers and men are providers" from women and in women's groups. It drives me crazy and fuels a lot of harmful stereotypes that reinforce patriarchy.
Here are some comments I read in my local moms group last night in response to basically the question of: (I've summarized it because the OP is lengthy.)
"Can anyone explain to me why the mama is nearly always the default parent? All of the personal preferences, shopping, meals, appointments (kids and pets), schedules, etc. are automatically 💯 on me. Sure he could take a kid to the doctor if he had to but I would have to make the appointment and send him the address.
Why?"
Responses:
The first comment was a reminder to women of your "place" in the home and society meme that shows a smiling woman in the kitchen making dinner while her smiling husband hugs her from behind. The meme read:
"I may be the default parent but he is the default provider.
he is the reason we have a house to call a home, and the reason we go to bed with full bellies and happy hearts.
he is the reason we can vacation together as a family and create special memories.
he is the reason why we are safe, secure, and happy."
"It sounds so cliche but I swear it’s a man thing haha. My husband is literally the best dad in the world. He works full time and does so much around the house too (due to some chronic issues I have that make it hard to do physical stuff) but if he has to get the kids ready he literally asks me where their clothes are 😂🤦🏻♀️ I’m like in the same exact drawer they have been in for 4 years haha. If he makes them breakfast he will say well I don’t know what they like 😂 like you’ve eaten 3 meals a day with them for 4 years haha. He says he has so much on his mind he doesn’t listen to the little details. I don’t complain I just laugh because it’s almost comical when it doesn’t drive me bonkers. But yes I completely understand!"
"In our household, my husband naturally takes on all the “project-based” work like repairing broken things, building the shed, dealing with cars, installing a new printer, etc. and I naturally take on the “maintenance” jobs, like laundry, meal planning, processing mail, managing school emails and kid activities, etc.
I don’t find it necessary for both of us to know everything that the other one does. He doesn’t know where the kids’ dance clothes are, but I couldn’t find the electric drill or leaf blower. Lol we just both manage different household domains." Notice the naturally part.
"I appreciate this positive understanding of the roles we naturally gravitate towards."
"I think good guys dont always "see" things that need to be done or handled, they need to be asked. I hope you can all have grace for each other."
Another alleged "good guy."
"As a mom our brains never shut off. We are always constantly thinking about our children, their needs, their schedules, how we are going to make things work etc. It’s exhausting and draining but it legit never stops. I think so often we are just in our own heads and know what we need done and we take the initiative to do it ourselves. I truly do not believe fathers are wired the same way. My husband is an incredible dad and very hard worker but I literally lost it on him lately for the same stuff. But, also he doesn’t know what’s going on in my mind at all times. I just get so frustrated like I shouldn’t have to tell you these things. We assume that they should automatically be aligned with our brains but I just don’t think it works that way for them. 😭"
This isn't meant to shame as there are no names or details to identify the commenters. I posted all of these comments to show how prevalent these old gender roles still are. The worst ones (tradwife) were deleted by today. I took a screenshot of the meme last night because I knew it would be deleted based on the feedback that she was getting.
Maybe someone will see themselves in these comments and either recognize it's not naturally this way or feel validated that they no longer buy the patriarchally imposed gender roles as "natural."
My experience is identical. The idea that kids aren't getting aggressive, constant, unavoidable gender socialization in this toxic stew is just ludicrous.
Ugh! This isn't surprising but is still incredibly frustrating. It's brainwashing by the patriarchy at its finest. Several of the commenters clearly dislike their husbands' unequal participation but try to justify it to keep from rocking the boat (good luck).
When I taught a Psychology of Women course, it took me 17 weeks to undo at least some of the brainwashing and get my students to think critically about gender. Most of the men who took the class weren't happy. That was especially true in a graduate class at a private university. It got ugly and I had to explain myself to the head of the program who asked if I hated men (!!) and then by the head of the department who asked why I taught the class from a feminist perspective. He had no clue how to answer when I pointed out that "from a feminist perspective" was how the course was described in the handbook. LOL
One of the women took that graduate course with her fiance (he was a total jerk). She started noticing and getting angry about how much extra household chores she did compared to him but ultimately decided that since she didn't want to be mad at him, she was going to ignore all she learned in the course. I suspect that's what many of the responders were doing too: trying to pretend things aren't unfair and they're fine.
It's an uphill climb trying to educate people about feminism and gender equity, particularly since our educational institutions teach very, very little about women in general and sexism in particular.
Yes! Thanks for your work on this. Sucks you had that experience with your class. I find that when I point out men’s abusive behavior I’m asked by more women than not “why do you hate men?”
I don’t! I hate abusive patriarchal behavior.
Exactly! My face must've been something to see when the program head asked if I hated men because he immediately backtracked. LOL. I always find it somewhat amusing that I see an unusually large number of men in my counseling practice. What do you know? The ones who want to do the work don't find me threatening nor do they believe I hate men. They feel seen.
I’m glad to hear confirmation that there are men who truly want to learn. It’s hard work for the women involved but it’s important. Thank you again. Keep on keeping on.
It's that so many men hate women and are so limited they imagine we feel the same. They can't comprehend how we see the behavior as distinct and as the root cause because we suffer from its impacts all the time.
Sounds like you rooted out a bunch of performative allies, also known as the self-identified "nice guys" Zawn talks about. They're feminists until women upset the status quo or usurp their power in any way. They're feminists insofar as they're comfortable with the results.
You mentioned "in our efforts to do away with gender programming, we are told not to notice any patterns which are huge..."
This is besides the point because those "huge" patterns you are observing(and your experiences) do not exist in vaccum. The socialization is agressive(so aggressive that girls are maimed & punished if they do not comply to gender stereotypes in several parts of this world), rampant and everywhere and begins before children are born. The point being we have no way of attributing these "huge differences" to "innate" differences until the socialization ceases which probably will not stop anytime soon because it benefits men & boys. Noone usually keeps telling girls the biological realities of child birth but they are told how Math & Computers are for boys. The former is a biological reality that need not be reiterated but patriarchy knows the latter has to be reiterated and sold over and over because girls can be excellent at Math & computer science. Women were actually the first programmers, compiler inventors and code breakers. They wrote the programming for space explorations before an agressive compaign to kick women out of programming & computer science began. As for science finally revealing reasons behind gender differences, "science" until recently has always maintained that gender differences are innate & immutable. Science of gender difference research is highly political in nature. It's only recently that science began to reveal that differences between women and men are miniscule compared to differences between two individuals. Also, Zawn's article does not imply that we congratulate the parents of a boy playing with dolls for doing away with gender socialization. It only says that we do not hold any value judgment or attribute his preference to gender irrespective of he playing with dolls or trains/truck. I think it would be infinitely amazing to see the effects of a world without gender socialization. That would definitely will have boys behaving in stereotypical
"feminine" ways and girls being rambunctious. I am certain of it because I grew up seeing rambunctious girls being punished and feminine boys shamed for being "sissy". And the powers that be (religious & political, financial giants) don't want that world to come into existence.
Confession: I sometimes lie about my rambunctious youngest child's gender in public.
When she's a boy, she's rambunctious and aggressive and intense. And very smart!
When she's a girl, she's cute and sweet and bossy and independent. Oh, and always very very pretty.
I had an acquaintance over last night for maybe 15 minutes. I counted 30 times she called my daughter pretty.
I am a mum of 4, 2 boys and 2 girls but my middle 2 (older a girl and younger a boy are very close in age). They played together and still do. They have a toy kitchen that is both of theirs, a Barbie house they both play with, dinosaurs and cars they both play. The girl plays footy as well as cheerleading and the boy plays footy but loves dancing. If he dressed in a tutu like his sister people think it's weird but if she was in a fireman costume people are like yeah girls can be anything!! And I hate this for him. He loves his dancing but is aware people say things (including his dad) and gets embarrassed often - he wouldn't even join the school dance group because of teasing. But when she plays footy everyone cheers for her taking on the boys sport.
I think if the things people liked we're not gendered so much there wouldnt be as much confusion with genders as there is now. You can be a boy who likes dance and pink or wearing dresses. And you can be a girl who likes footy and beer and loose clothes. Those things shouldn't change your gender as your gender shouldn't make a difference to what you like.
You're so right. We cheer on girls for doing "boy" things because those are coded as the "desirable" things but shame boys for liking the "undesirable" female coded things. A boy in an apron making cookies in a play kitchen? How terrible! A girl with a toy power drill? You go, #girlboss!
But the writer isn't teaching/demonstrating even Gender Nonconformity.
It has ALWAYS been at least moderately "ok" (if a little "eccentric") for girls to be interested in Boy Things.
Calling traditionally "masculine coded" things "gender neutral" is still teaching your daughter that there are two genders. It's just that instead of "boy" and "girl," you're using the words "neutral" and "unacceptable." This is exactly the same patriarchy, and using different words doesn't change that you are giving daughters the message that "girl" things (and, by extension, BEING a girl) are inferior.
Yes, exactly! It's a somewhat analogous thought practice to white people claiming to be "color blind." Which is not the same as anti-racist because it doesn't deal with the discrepancies and power imbalances that exist due to racism. Without that lens, it can just reinforce the existing hierarchies as "natural."
This this this!
Like every other big part of parenting, you’re not really going to get it just right until you process your own shit. But you can try hard and learn lots.
My 3yo daughter had long messy hair - just like mom! Recently her 6yo brother cut it ALL and now she has a short pageboy. I was proud of how I handled it - I kept my sadness about her hair to myself, we talked about consent (she asked him to), she loves the new look, scissors are dangerous, etc etc. a few days later a server referred to her as a boy and I….corrected the server. OMG, I’m still embarrassed. And I’m still a feminist and still trying to teach both my kids, and myself, how to think and act outside the patriarchy.
Are you embarrassed because your daughter didn't want it to be explained? I think it may not be such a bad thing as it can help reinforce that hair length doesn't determine someone's gender. But I can also understand how an interaction like that brings up all those complicated feelings and knee-jerk responses. It's admirable that you are being so conscious and working actively not to reinforce patriarchal conditioning.
Thank you for this, Zawn.
It's absolutely a toss-up.
I have fraternal twin girls with an older brother. I chose to dress my daughters alike, which I probably would not have done had they been identical. Surprisingly they're still into it- probably because it's the only similarity, they are like night and day. But it's proven to be an interesting crash course in public perception and gender stereotypes.
Another aspect I noticed is that the letter writer assumed the masculine equals gender neutral. She dressed her in boy's clothes, only encouraged masculine (stereotypically) interests, etc. Male is not gender neutral. She is absolutely pulling gender roles into her house through what is okay and not okay, it's just reversed from average. Letting children play with whatever they like (including things stereotypical to their gender) is the only way to not put gender into your home.
When I had my daughter, I dressed her entirely in neutral or “boy” clothes, gave her stuffed animals instead of dolls, never put her in dresses or pink. Then I realised that I was making a gendered choice, by not engaging with any of the “girl” stuff. We now talk about how there is no such thing as “boy” or “girl” clothing or toys, just clothing and toys. My kid went through the princesses and mermaids thing, and has landed as her own unique self.
I know you have addressed raising sons, and I have a question for when kids get older (my son is 13). I want him to be aware of sexism so he can call it out. I have encouraged him to notice when boys are talking over girls and to call it out (and to notice it in himself). Do you think it's better not to say "society is going to tell you it's ok to talk over girls because you're a boy"? Should I leave it more neutral? I want him to understand that men have to help bring down patriarchy, but I don't want to remind him of his gender if that is unhelpful! 😱