I homeschool my kids, because my local school district is horrible. Where I live, even the public schools start after Labor Day (1st wk of Sept) so I'm gearing up to make sure all the kids activities are signed up and paid for.
We're trying all new groups, again, so I'm hoping my kids can finally make some friends who *don't* have terrible parents.
I homeschool too. We just moved to a new area (don’t even have a permanent place yet), so I’ve been researching activities and groups and feeling the uncertainty of it all. I hope to start when schools around here do around 8/19, but I’m not looking forward to homeschooling while Airbnb hopping (until we find a place).
School starts Wednesday where I live, so I have gotten all the school supplies and uniforms ready myself. I'm glad you mentioned the heat. I need to talk to my daughter about drinking enough water at school. My husband and I are separating and plan to tell our daughter after the first full week of school, so next weekend (at the recommendation of her therapist). I'm expecting this to be a tough school year with that situation and also third grade is just a little more difficult in general.
We moved in pre-separation plans to be closer to my mom when my youngest was in 3rd grade. We separated when he was in 4th grade. Luckily it went smoothly and he’s handled it better than I could ever anticipate. (His older brother struggled more with the changes). 5th grade was then his best year thus far!
I'm so glad to hear it went smoothly. We just got back from school to meet the teacher and drop off supplies. My daughter got the homeroom teacher she wanted and has a bunch of her good friends in her class, so I'm hoping that will help. I would love to hear more about your your sons' experiences and things you did to help with the transition.
If you haven't mentioned to their teacher yet that you're separating (maybe best to wait until your child knows just in case they slip), it will give them context for any changes in your child in the coming months. I stayed in close contact with my daughter's 4th grade teacher for the same reason and it helped to have her on our "team" so to speak. Her teacher also got her access to the school counselor for weekly sessions for support. My daughter loved it.
These are great ideas! I need to let her teacher know after we tell her and had forgotten about the school counselor. That’s a resource I definitely need to take advantage of.
My ex partner never helped with school so I’m guessing he won’t now either! Both my kids will be going this year and all I’m thinking is that I’ll need to buy them both indoor shoes and other things. I think schools make it hard for working parents to be involved and I guess I’m lucky I’m self employed and work from home but even if I didn’t it seems to almost always fall on the moms
My youngest (of 4) is starting her senior year of college. So it’s been a few years since I’ve dealt with back-to-school. But the thing I remember most vividly is the financial stress of having to buy supplies and clothing for four kids, with a partner who was habitually unemployed and didn’t think we should spend any money on that. And then after we divorced, he refused to contribute financially to the back-to-school expenses because “that’s what child support is for.” (And I have to add that he was chronically late with child support and missed more payments than he made.) There were years that we had to rely on our local free school supply drives, which was embarassing to both me and my kids because these events were staffed by parents of their friends and classmates. And I always felt sad that my kids had to go to school with cheap, basic supplies and clothing instead of what the other kids had. It made me feel like a failure. Having a shitty partner is the gift that keeps on giving, so to speak. It affects every aspect of your life and your children’s. Preparing them for school becomes something to dread and fear instead of something to celebrate, and that’s really sad. My heart goes out to others who are experiencing this.
I have a few article ideas I will just throw out there:
Have you heard of the technology that looks at the brain and can assess (I am not sure how accurately ) if a person is an abuser or not? I just came across this recently and would like to learn more.
How can we get abuse education in schools?!
How do we best reach women in fundamental religious circles? I used to be one of them for years and know the intense brainwashing that occurs from birth in those patriarchal spaces. They are taught that feminism is evil, that the man is the head of the household/marriage, marriage is for life no matter what, etc. They won’t even touch feminist work of any type. 😢
Are we supposed to have empathy of any type for abusers? Especially in light of knowing that they often suffered abuse as a child and that patriarchy stripped them of full personhood (it shut down their feelings, empathy, etc.)
It's interesting how you said that patriarchy strips people of their empathy.
I grew up in abuse, but not patriarchy. As an adult, I became a Christian, and like most wounded souls, I went to an extreme. I plugged into some churches with these kinds of views.
I don't think that I completely lacked empathy as a kid/ young adult. But I definitely had difficulty connecting with others and understanding the needs and feelings of those around me. Understandably so, if you know what I went through.
I think that those patriarchal beliefs only squelched my empathy more.
Part of recovery meant learning how to develop healthy and appropriate empathy. For myself and for others.
I have been thinking for years we need high schools to have relationship classes . No one has a clue what a healthy relationship looks like and what is normal emotional ups and downs and mistakes vs red flags. Teens need to learn it before their first relationship and definitely before they leave home!!
I'm a teacher with three school age children, here school starts in September (2nd for me and 12th for the kids). I generally like the beginning of the school year. My twins are starting middle school and they are excited but also a bit sad to have finished primary school. I think I'll have a hard time this year with my head teacher and his staff but I'm trying to stay positive. I'm sorry to read that school supply is such a problem for some families, don't feel ashamed for your struggles.
Shout out to all the women handling back to school! I remember it was exciting but stressful for everyone. My adult kids are grown and gone now, so for me this time of year is relaxing and full of travel plans (for when the weather is cooler and vacation places are less crowded). Just sending a note of encouragement that before long they’ll be grown and you won’t have to deal with this any more, your time and your plans will be your own! Hang in there.
Good afternoon. Thank you, Zawn for allowing unsubscribed members to chat once a month. I am still reading and deciding whether to subscribe. I have appreciated your humor and your exactness in previous articles. I also love how you make me think. Now, for school thoughts - I am now an empty nester and absolutely love not worrying about the start of school. There is a ton of stress I put my kids through for dumb reasons. New clothes are a need, but it is also a societal demand that is not helpful. I also wanted to use leftover school supplies to save money. If anyone is gasping at how awful I am, don't worry. My husband "saved" the kids. (This is actually a point of great humor in our marriage.) My husband loooves school supplies and could not wait to take all the kids. He bought them all the shiny useless folders their little hearts desired. One year he was unemployed and took over all the school appointments and was super involved in school activities. I actually learned from this particular year how important it was for me to ALLOW my husband to parent. I was far to controlling for far too long. Anyone still reading? This has ended up being a novel. It has been much more fun being partners in the process rather than one or the other of us doing it all. It took 30 years, but I hope my kids will partner up sooner than me.
I'm middleaged and childless (& interested in helping and encouraging my mother friends with de-shaming their mothering experiences, which is why I subscribe, to keep learning).
My parents stopped buying my school supplies and back to school clothes in Grade 7. Many people can't fathom this, but they simply didn't want to spend the money on it. My sister remembers the same. I had my first paid babysitting job - full-time - the summer before Grade 7.
That said, once I got through my baggage about it, I think it helped me grow attuned to some core values I will forever hold dear: compassion for those parenting in poverty, and poverty in general; environmentalism; reduce/reuse; and giving to others.
It's nice you and your partner worked in tandem. My mother was in charge of spending as she felt my father was too loose with money (I believe it - there were plenty of signs later in life).
I hated being poor growing up and it left its scars but it has served me, too.
I am a solo parent and I get my child ready for school on my own. Very peaceful and low stress for me. I got some decluttering done, took stock of what we already have and got the missing items.
A random thought I've been toying with....is co-dependency just a fancy way of entrenching the patriarchy? It occurred to me that the dynamic of "the giver" is how women are told to behave in heteronormative relationships in order to secure a husband and it is in this "service" of men that they will receive love. To the extent that if a man is not "dependent" on you in that way you are offering nothing to the relationship and are "low value." We are teaching and promoting co-dependency in young women and then shaming them when inevitably their mental health falters. I wonder how many other psychological constructs document the patriarchy in this way (anxious-avoidant relationship loop anyone?). Not to say these aren't legitimate psychological principles, or that either gender can't experience them, but to the extent they do largely play along cis-gender lines in pop culture and the public discourse it seems it largely reflects a lot of patriarchal bullshit.
I hate the word co-dependency because it almost always makes it appear that the women’s way of showing up in the relationship is pathological. The problem isn’t that she’s giving too much (or too “dependent” on him “depending” on her), the problem is that he’s giving too little and feels entitled to do so.
As I wrote on another of Zawn’s posts, “To love is to be devoted, to pay deep attention, to care, to nurture, to see the extraordinary the ordinary, to delight in the joy of natural giving, to *want* to do emotional labour because you know it makes the other person happy and that makes you happy, to value the other for the sacred and the mundane, to let oneself be moved and awakened and wowed by another, to give the most precious gift you can to another: your quality of presence. Your generosity of spirit. Love is a superpower.
The problem is that guys generally don’t give these things. Most do in early stages of dating. But they tap out as soon as the relationship is secure, because emotional labour (EL)/paying attention is “women’s work.” But EL is the backbone of relationships, not the entry fee.”
Men who are avoidant are similarly lauded by society as the strong independent guy, guy who can take care of his own needs, has good self-worth and doesn’t need another person to make him feel better etc - as we live in a capitalist individualistic society. When in practice, he is probably automatically getting his needs met by his partner (therefore never has to experience his own neediness), while ignoring his partner’s needs. Which of course makes her feel anxious and frustrated. And society casts her as the “crazy”, over emotional, hysterical, exaggerating girlfriend or wife while applauding the (often) quiet, mild mannered avoidant dude (who’s probably aggressive behind closed doors). Society almost universally takes the side of the “strong” (avoidant) dude because to be a good human these days is apparently to be self-sufficient, self-loving, meet your own needs, take self-responsibility etc etc and not burden others…while casting her as childish and crazy. Because apparently only children are dependent.
I found Nora Samaran’s articles really helped me see the bullshittery of how attachment styles land in the context of patriarchy (“The opposite of rape culture is nurturance culture,” “For men who desperately need autonomy,” etc) and Carmen Spagnola’s Medium article (“Portrait of a Marriage: Yes, It’s Mine”) was useful too.
My personal view is that co-dependency is a myth. We are all dependent, just a much as each other, and not that much less than in childhood. Adults just have far more subtle, sophisticated and precise ways of meeting their needs, whereas children have more crude, inflexible, overt ways of trying to get needs met (crying etc). Co-dependency language risks making it look like ALL dependency is bad and generally pathologises women who are socialised to being more open about their feelings and needs, and therefore to be more obvious about their dependency. As the late Dan Wile said, we are either effectively dependent or ineffectively dependent (good at getting our needs met or not), there’s no such thing as being overdependent or under dependent- the only reason some people (often women) appear desperate and needy is because their needs are so unmet and the only reason men appear so not-needy is because women are automatically meeting their needs so men never have to ask.
But yeah I agree, would be interesting to hear Zawn’s thoughts on attachment styles and “codependency”.
Re: co-dependency as a concept, I agree with you to some degree but there becomes a point or time that it’s actually narcissism where one feels that one cannot function with them and actively doesn’t allow them to function without that person controlling them.
My ex wouldn’t allow me to cook and would get upset if I did cook and “mess up his kitchen”. He would claim we didn’t have room in the kitchen to shop for more than 1-2 days of groceries (we had a 3k sq foot house, there was room). When I did cook, he wouldn’t eat what I made. This all was to control what he ate and to prevent him from having to do anything else of substance to contribute towards parenting the household but also to keep me dependent on him for meals.
"When in practice, he is probably automatically getting his needs met by his partner (therefore never has to experience his own neediness), while ignoring his partner’s needs. Which of course makes her feel anxious and frustrated."
This describes my former relationship dynamic perfectly.
Your comment made my day. I'm crying over here! The work to undue this awful relationship shit is never done, apparently.
Aw yeah, glad to help!! Big hugs to you ❤️🙏🏾it took me ages to stop seeing myself (through his eyes) as crazy and needy and demanding…and start seeing him as not providing the bare minimum of respect, empathy, kindness to make the relationship tolerable. In addition to Nora Samaran’s Wordpress articles I mentioned above, another excellent post on this was Against Chill by Alana Massey on Medium. Hope that helps!
Oh how I wish I understood this at the start of my relationship. As I was reading I immediately remembered how he would make me think I was a crazy when he would not let me know he was going to be late or going out and I would be so anxious and worried. Because I cared. No wi only care if he has one of our children with him. And they will text me back. He's definitely narssasstic. But patriarchy is definitely a factor as is his family and no one on his side, including him, willing to grow. I'm doing the work and have essentially cut off his family and would him if I was in a place I could do that. Having a disabled child makes it really difficult. Everything you wrote really resonated with me. Thank you.
My ex used to joke that he would have no idea when school started, what school supplies the kids needed if it wasn’t for me. I don’t know he even thought that was funny to mention
We are changing schools this year, so I am nervous for my kids. All 3 are ND, with various needs. I really hope they get the best services in this new district. They start the 14th. I plan to join PTA and it's a tiny public school, so fingers crossed it goes well. Good luck to all the teachers!
Also- school supplies for my son’s kindergarten year were $221 and that doesn’t count shoes (they need indoor and outdoor) or backpacks and lunch bags. Bananas.
I work as a school nurse. I have no children of my own yet.
Adult preferences should never trump our bodies' needs. That's a new one. It's a good thing to teach kids, but hard, as we struggle to question adults.
I grew up in the north, so we don't go back until September. Heat isn't much of an issue here. In fact, they gave us a few half days at the end of this past year because we had an early heat wave.
But I see it coming through, in the way kids couldn't always use the bathroom when they needed it (It's changing now. They are more permissive. But I remember when I was a kid, and it was like being afraid to ask).
And the way getting up too early destroyed my mental health. I was deprived of sleep when by body needed it the most. Because of adult preferences. I was reading recently about sleep impact on teen mental health. Suicide rates go up during the school year, and on Mondays, said one study.
If there was one thing that could have made my high school years easier, it would be getting more sleep. I feel sad for the teenagers who have to get up so early. If there was one "need" that I wish I could have asserted, it was sleep.
I was definitely afraid to ask to go to the bathroom as a kid. Also I wore a uniform and some teachers were ridiculously picky about enforcing winter uniform rules the day they came into effect, even if October 1 was five million degrees outside and the A/C wasn't working. I wore my outer uniform layer basically all year round because of the epic sweat stains on my white oxford shirt from the times when uniform requirements mandated discomfort
Yes, I remember being in school as a child and being afraid to ask you to the bathroom. Then I got the junior high and I remember one day a kid raised his hand and asked if he could go to the bathroom and the teacher just said "you're grown now, just excuse yourself and go. why do you need to ask? "
My school uses a supplier, so I put in our orders in May. But I'm sure there will be some last minute class specific stuff. I need to check their uniform clothes to be sure we have enough. But other than that is just waiting for the school to provide bus schedules and open house times, etc. It's really not on my partner's radar at all.
I homeschool my kids, because my local school district is horrible. Where I live, even the public schools start after Labor Day (1st wk of Sept) so I'm gearing up to make sure all the kids activities are signed up and paid for.
We're trying all new groups, again, so I'm hoping my kids can finally make some friends who *don't* have terrible parents.
I homeschool too. We just moved to a new area (don’t even have a permanent place yet), so I’ve been researching activities and groups and feeling the uncertainty of it all. I hope to start when schools around here do around 8/19, but I’m not looking forward to homeschooling while Airbnb hopping (until we find a place).
School starts Wednesday where I live, so I have gotten all the school supplies and uniforms ready myself. I'm glad you mentioned the heat. I need to talk to my daughter about drinking enough water at school. My husband and I are separating and plan to tell our daughter after the first full week of school, so next weekend (at the recommendation of her therapist). I'm expecting this to be a tough school year with that situation and also third grade is just a little more difficult in general.
Sending big hugs to you. I separated a year ago and it’s tough but I feel more at peace and the kids have adjusted quite well
Thank you. I'm so glad to hear that!
We moved in pre-separation plans to be closer to my mom when my youngest was in 3rd grade. We separated when he was in 4th grade. Luckily it went smoothly and he’s handled it better than I could ever anticipate. (His older brother struggled more with the changes). 5th grade was then his best year thus far!
I'm so glad to hear it went smoothly. We just got back from school to meet the teacher and drop off supplies. My daughter got the homeroom teacher she wanted and has a bunch of her good friends in her class, so I'm hoping that will help. I would love to hear more about your your sons' experiences and things you did to help with the transition.
If you haven't mentioned to their teacher yet that you're separating (maybe best to wait until your child knows just in case they slip), it will give them context for any changes in your child in the coming months. I stayed in close contact with my daughter's 4th grade teacher for the same reason and it helped to have her on our "team" so to speak. Her teacher also got her access to the school counselor for weekly sessions for support. My daughter loved it.
These are great ideas! I need to let her teacher know after we tell her and had forgotten about the school counselor. That’s a resource I definitely need to take advantage of.
Good luck! I am also separating at this time. My kids start the 14th.
Good luck to you too!
My ex partner never helped with school so I’m guessing he won’t now either! Both my kids will be going this year and all I’m thinking is that I’ll need to buy them both indoor shoes and other things. I think schools make it hard for working parents to be involved and I guess I’m lucky I’m self employed and work from home but even if I didn’t it seems to almost always fall on the moms
My youngest (of 4) is starting her senior year of college. So it’s been a few years since I’ve dealt with back-to-school. But the thing I remember most vividly is the financial stress of having to buy supplies and clothing for four kids, with a partner who was habitually unemployed and didn’t think we should spend any money on that. And then after we divorced, he refused to contribute financially to the back-to-school expenses because “that’s what child support is for.” (And I have to add that he was chronically late with child support and missed more payments than he made.) There were years that we had to rely on our local free school supply drives, which was embarassing to both me and my kids because these events were staffed by parents of their friends and classmates. And I always felt sad that my kids had to go to school with cheap, basic supplies and clothing instead of what the other kids had. It made me feel like a failure. Having a shitty partner is the gift that keeps on giving, so to speak. It affects every aspect of your life and your children’s. Preparing them for school becomes something to dread and fear instead of something to celebrate, and that’s really sad. My heart goes out to others who are experiencing this.
I have a few article ideas I will just throw out there:
Have you heard of the technology that looks at the brain and can assess (I am not sure how accurately ) if a person is an abuser or not? I just came across this recently and would like to learn more.
How can we get abuse education in schools?!
How do we best reach women in fundamental religious circles? I used to be one of them for years and know the intense brainwashing that occurs from birth in those patriarchal spaces. They are taught that feminism is evil, that the man is the head of the household/marriage, marriage is for life no matter what, etc. They won’t even touch feminist work of any type. 😢
Are we supposed to have empathy of any type for abusers? Especially in light of knowing that they often suffered abuse as a child and that patriarchy stripped them of full personhood (it shut down their feelings, empathy, etc.)
It's interesting how you said that patriarchy strips people of their empathy.
I grew up in abuse, but not patriarchy. As an adult, I became a Christian, and like most wounded souls, I went to an extreme. I plugged into some churches with these kinds of views.
I don't think that I completely lacked empathy as a kid/ young adult. But I definitely had difficulty connecting with others and understanding the needs and feelings of those around me. Understandably so, if you know what I went through.
I think that those patriarchal beliefs only squelched my empathy more.
Part of recovery meant learning how to develop healthy and appropriate empathy. For myself and for others.
I have been thinking for years we need high schools to have relationship classes . No one has a clue what a healthy relationship looks like and what is normal emotional ups and downs and mistakes vs red flags. Teens need to learn it before their first relationship and definitely before they leave home!!
Yes!!!
I'm a teacher with three school age children, here school starts in September (2nd for me and 12th for the kids). I generally like the beginning of the school year. My twins are starting middle school and they are excited but also a bit sad to have finished primary school. I think I'll have a hard time this year with my head teacher and his staff but I'm trying to stay positive. I'm sorry to read that school supply is such a problem for some families, don't feel ashamed for your struggles.
Shout out to all the women handling back to school! I remember it was exciting but stressful for everyone. My adult kids are grown and gone now, so for me this time of year is relaxing and full of travel plans (for when the weather is cooler and vacation places are less crowded). Just sending a note of encouragement that before long they’ll be grown and you won’t have to deal with this any more, your time and your plans will be your own! Hang in there.
So true and yay for you.
Good afternoon. Thank you, Zawn for allowing unsubscribed members to chat once a month. I am still reading and deciding whether to subscribe. I have appreciated your humor and your exactness in previous articles. I also love how you make me think. Now, for school thoughts - I am now an empty nester and absolutely love not worrying about the start of school. There is a ton of stress I put my kids through for dumb reasons. New clothes are a need, but it is also a societal demand that is not helpful. I also wanted to use leftover school supplies to save money. If anyone is gasping at how awful I am, don't worry. My husband "saved" the kids. (This is actually a point of great humor in our marriage.) My husband loooves school supplies and could not wait to take all the kids. He bought them all the shiny useless folders their little hearts desired. One year he was unemployed and took over all the school appointments and was super involved in school activities. I actually learned from this particular year how important it was for me to ALLOW my husband to parent. I was far to controlling for far too long. Anyone still reading? This has ended up being a novel. It has been much more fun being partners in the process rather than one or the other of us doing it all. It took 30 years, but I hope my kids will partner up sooner than me.
I'm middleaged and childless (& interested in helping and encouraging my mother friends with de-shaming their mothering experiences, which is why I subscribe, to keep learning).
My parents stopped buying my school supplies and back to school clothes in Grade 7. Many people can't fathom this, but they simply didn't want to spend the money on it. My sister remembers the same. I had my first paid babysitting job - full-time - the summer before Grade 7.
That said, once I got through my baggage about it, I think it helped me grow attuned to some core values I will forever hold dear: compassion for those parenting in poverty, and poverty in general; environmentalism; reduce/reuse; and giving to others.
It's nice you and your partner worked in tandem. My mother was in charge of spending as she felt my father was too loose with money (I believe it - there were plenty of signs later in life).
I hated being poor growing up and it left its scars but it has served me, too.
I am a solo parent and I get my child ready for school on my own. Very peaceful and low stress for me. I got some decluttering done, took stock of what we already have and got the missing items.
A random thought I've been toying with....is co-dependency just a fancy way of entrenching the patriarchy? It occurred to me that the dynamic of "the giver" is how women are told to behave in heteronormative relationships in order to secure a husband and it is in this "service" of men that they will receive love. To the extent that if a man is not "dependent" on you in that way you are offering nothing to the relationship and are "low value." We are teaching and promoting co-dependency in young women and then shaming them when inevitably their mental health falters. I wonder how many other psychological constructs document the patriarchy in this way (anxious-avoidant relationship loop anyone?). Not to say these aren't legitimate psychological principles, or that either gender can't experience them, but to the extent they do largely play along cis-gender lines in pop culture and the public discourse it seems it largely reflects a lot of patriarchal bullshit.
I hate the word co-dependency because it almost always makes it appear that the women’s way of showing up in the relationship is pathological. The problem isn’t that she’s giving too much (or too “dependent” on him “depending” on her), the problem is that he’s giving too little and feels entitled to do so.
As I wrote on another of Zawn’s posts, “To love is to be devoted, to pay deep attention, to care, to nurture, to see the extraordinary the ordinary, to delight in the joy of natural giving, to *want* to do emotional labour because you know it makes the other person happy and that makes you happy, to value the other for the sacred and the mundane, to let oneself be moved and awakened and wowed by another, to give the most precious gift you can to another: your quality of presence. Your generosity of spirit. Love is a superpower.
The problem is that guys generally don’t give these things. Most do in early stages of dating. But they tap out as soon as the relationship is secure, because emotional labour (EL)/paying attention is “women’s work.” But EL is the backbone of relationships, not the entry fee.”
Men who are avoidant are similarly lauded by society as the strong independent guy, guy who can take care of his own needs, has good self-worth and doesn’t need another person to make him feel better etc - as we live in a capitalist individualistic society. When in practice, he is probably automatically getting his needs met by his partner (therefore never has to experience his own neediness), while ignoring his partner’s needs. Which of course makes her feel anxious and frustrated. And society casts her as the “crazy”, over emotional, hysterical, exaggerating girlfriend or wife while applauding the (often) quiet, mild mannered avoidant dude (who’s probably aggressive behind closed doors). Society almost universally takes the side of the “strong” (avoidant) dude because to be a good human these days is apparently to be self-sufficient, self-loving, meet your own needs, take self-responsibility etc etc and not burden others…while casting her as childish and crazy. Because apparently only children are dependent.
I found Nora Samaran’s articles really helped me see the bullshittery of how attachment styles land in the context of patriarchy (“The opposite of rape culture is nurturance culture,” “For men who desperately need autonomy,” etc) and Carmen Spagnola’s Medium article (“Portrait of a Marriage: Yes, It’s Mine”) was useful too.
My personal view is that co-dependency is a myth. We are all dependent, just a much as each other, and not that much less than in childhood. Adults just have far more subtle, sophisticated and precise ways of meeting their needs, whereas children have more crude, inflexible, overt ways of trying to get needs met (crying etc). Co-dependency language risks making it look like ALL dependency is bad and generally pathologises women who are socialised to being more open about their feelings and needs, and therefore to be more obvious about their dependency. As the late Dan Wile said, we are either effectively dependent or ineffectively dependent (good at getting our needs met or not), there’s no such thing as being overdependent or under dependent- the only reason some people (often women) appear desperate and needy is because their needs are so unmet and the only reason men appear so not-needy is because women are automatically meeting their needs so men never have to ask.
But yeah I agree, would be interesting to hear Zawn’s thoughts on attachment styles and “codependency”.
Why do we even claim that these men are self-sufficient and take self-responsibility when they clearly aren’t and don’t?
Re: co-dependency as a concept, I agree with you to some degree but there becomes a point or time that it’s actually narcissism where one feels that one cannot function with them and actively doesn’t allow them to function without that person controlling them.
My ex wouldn’t allow me to cook and would get upset if I did cook and “mess up his kitchen”. He would claim we didn’t have room in the kitchen to shop for more than 1-2 days of groceries (we had a 3k sq foot house, there was room). When I did cook, he wouldn’t eat what I made. This all was to control what he ate and to prevent him from having to do anything else of substance to contribute towards parenting the household but also to keep me dependent on him for meals.
And dependent on our need for food
"When in practice, he is probably automatically getting his needs met by his partner (therefore never has to experience his own neediness), while ignoring his partner’s needs. Which of course makes her feel anxious and frustrated."
This describes my former relationship dynamic perfectly.
Your comment made my day. I'm crying over here! The work to undue this awful relationship shit is never done, apparently.
Aw yeah, glad to help!! Big hugs to you ❤️🙏🏾it took me ages to stop seeing myself (through his eyes) as crazy and needy and demanding…and start seeing him as not providing the bare minimum of respect, empathy, kindness to make the relationship tolerable. In addition to Nora Samaran’s Wordpress articles I mentioned above, another excellent post on this was Against Chill by Alana Massey on Medium. Hope that helps!
It does help. Thank you!
Oh how I wish I understood this at the start of my relationship. As I was reading I immediately remembered how he would make me think I was a crazy when he would not let me know he was going to be late or going out and I would be so anxious and worried. Because I cared. No wi only care if he has one of our children with him. And they will text me back. He's definitely narssasstic. But patriarchy is definitely a factor as is his family and no one on his side, including him, willing to grow. I'm doing the work and have essentially cut off his family and would him if I was in a place I could do that. Having a disabled child makes it really difficult. Everything you wrote really resonated with me. Thank you.
My ex used to joke that he would have no idea when school started, what school supplies the kids needed if it wasn’t for me. I don’t know he even thought that was funny to mention
We are changing schools this year, so I am nervous for my kids. All 3 are ND, with various needs. I really hope they get the best services in this new district. They start the 14th. I plan to join PTA and it's a tiny public school, so fingers crossed it goes well. Good luck to all the teachers!
My boys are starting kindergarten and preschool.
They haven’t been away from me for a whole day since birth.
I was planning to homeschool, but physical abuse and pending divorce has changed every thing in my life.
My heart is broken and I’ve had to have therapy to help me adjust to the idea of being away from them all day everyday.
I found a fantastic school and daycare, the best really, so I’m very lucky.
I hope the kids adjust well, I’m nervous about it.
Good luck. Such a tender time and a broken heart on top is very painful. I believe in you.
Also- school supplies for my son’s kindergarten year were $221 and that doesn’t count shoes (they need indoor and outdoor) or backpacks and lunch bags. Bananas.
I work as a school nurse. I have no children of my own yet.
Adult preferences should never trump our bodies' needs. That's a new one. It's a good thing to teach kids, but hard, as we struggle to question adults.
I grew up in the north, so we don't go back until September. Heat isn't much of an issue here. In fact, they gave us a few half days at the end of this past year because we had an early heat wave.
But I see it coming through, in the way kids couldn't always use the bathroom when they needed it (It's changing now. They are more permissive. But I remember when I was a kid, and it was like being afraid to ask).
And the way getting up too early destroyed my mental health. I was deprived of sleep when by body needed it the most. Because of adult preferences. I was reading recently about sleep impact on teen mental health. Suicide rates go up during the school year, and on Mondays, said one study.
If there was one thing that could have made my high school years easier, it would be getting more sleep. I feel sad for the teenagers who have to get up so early. If there was one "need" that I wish I could have asserted, it was sleep.
I was definitely afraid to ask to go to the bathroom as a kid. Also I wore a uniform and some teachers were ridiculously picky about enforcing winter uniform rules the day they came into effect, even if October 1 was five million degrees outside and the A/C wasn't working. I wore my outer uniform layer basically all year round because of the epic sweat stains on my white oxford shirt from the times when uniform requirements mandated discomfort
Yes, I remember being in school as a child and being afraid to ask you to the bathroom. Then I got the junior high and I remember one day a kid raised his hand and asked if he could go to the bathroom and the teacher just said "you're grown now, just excuse yourself and go. why do you need to ask? "
My school uses a supplier, so I put in our orders in May. But I'm sure there will be some last minute class specific stuff. I need to check their uniform clothes to be sure we have enough. But other than that is just waiting for the school to provide bus schedules and open house times, etc. It's really not on my partner's radar at all.