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Carrie's avatar

Yes! Fantastic. There are so many aspects to this that can bear more exploration.

"Their primary goal isn’t to harm women; it’s to gain unearned benefits like leisure, free time, and higher wages. Harming women is the means to the end, not the end in itself."

True -- and yet, I would offer another benefit that from what I have seen in my life seems to be even more powerful than those. The primary goal is to **gain status with other men**. Men get status with other men with more money, free time, and the boast that their wife is a good cook and great mother. They get status by sleeping around, having expensive gadgets, not demeaning themselves with certain kinds of labor, not having to do "girl" things, accumulating professional accolades, being physically strong, or whatever is the trend in their age group and set. The desire to preserve their status is why the men who will openly criticize other men who are abusive are very, very rare. I have watched a dozen or so "good" men, who I believe honestly meant well, support women in private, and yet refuse to speak against the man who was perpetrating harassment. One even went so far as to say "If we refused to treat him as usual, the climate in this group would be awful".

Hello. The climate in your group is already awful --FOR WOMEN. But you are more concerned with not disturbing your social clique and possibly losing power in this group.

In my opinion, almost all of it has a basis in social competition and the desire for greater status than the rest.

Great post, more like this please!

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Heather's avatar

Wow. One of your best and most expansive pieces, Zawn.

And the reverse is also true: feminism is not about hating men (or about making them perform to some imaginary "standard"), but about making women's lives better and easier.

Something I have to keep explaining to my husband: making things more equitable is not about making him do "more" or forcing him to tick off some "good husband" checkbox (a genuinely bizarre twist on my insistence on more equity); the point is dividing the work that already exists so that everyone has a chance at a satisfying, safe, and meaningful life. That's it.

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