Again, so so good. Thank you to you and Jeff. He is a breath of fresh air. You are both so articulate and concise. Men would do well to listen to this, especially if they actually want healthy sex lives with their appliances.
Great podcast as usual. Focused a lot on how men get violent when they get angry but I tended to have the opposite experience - my ex would go silent and/or ghost me when he got mad (especially if he was mad about me being upset about something he did). I found this equally terrifying. Makes one wonder if the relationship is over if one raises any issues at all. And pulled me into the pursuit-distance dynamic - to stop him ghosting me I had to drop the issue and be ok with not getting any of my needs met.
Otherwise, if I pursued the issue, he would go into the concrete box and stop listening to me. Kind of like going into a sulk - or putting out a stink (love Zawn/Jeff’s use of the word “broadcast” in this episode). The ex said we should be responsible for our own feelings and not burden each other with them…but I still had to deal with the *externalities* of his feelings like silence and distance and sullenness. I.e. he still “broadcasted” his feelings even if he wasn’t articulating them or otherwise acting them out.
Pushing things roughly is violence. Silent treatment is violence. I hope you can make plans to leave. Get the information you need, document all of these violent behaviours. Follow Kaitlyn Jorgenson on instagram
This was so healing to hear yall discuss these topics! So nice for my nervous system to hear a man agree without defensiveness and also have so many great perspectives to add! Love this and looking forward to more
I dont know how to amplify those voices men like Jeff shaming other men for being fucking losers and weak for being abusive. I dont know what the best harm minimisation tactic is. I love the education you do zawn, I think the more women that withdraw their labour from men the better. The story at the beginning hit me hard as well.
Great episode. When you were discussing the guy who is abusive in order to get sex and you were saying if he gets a divorce he’ll have to show up at least part time as a parent. Most likely he’s going to become a victim tell the sob story to other women who eventually will become stepmom and she will raise his children. Another woman appliance pulled into the drama.
I love the format and want to applaude you for the idea of doing this with your husband. This is not a praise of him as such (though he seems like a good husband), but more a comment on your last part about the audience.
When you talk and your husband listens and refers to your knowledge and authority this is such a strong message in the world we live in (however much I hate that this is the case).
Also modelling to us how men can respond in a constructive way and recognise these issues and how you can sometimes disagree on points. It is very powerful to listen to.
I get encouraging women to set boundaries and having directness. When I hear an example of healthy boundary setting, for some reason I’m trying to figure out, I perceived it as a “threat”’or an “ultimatum”. Obviously delivery and phrasing is a part of the difference. However, I think missing from the conversation about “directness” and women asking for their needs to be met, is that women are abused for doing this. Some of us were abused by our parents for doing this as children and then later on grow up to be abused by our male partners for doing this. While I agree it’s an important, we have to also recognize that the history of why women aren’t more like this or aren’t this way in a marriage.
It’s paramount for women to do this when first dating. They will see how these men will respond and be prepared to leave the instant he responds poorly or makes her feel all the things that women are made to feel for speaking “directly” or for having needs.
Wow. This was an excellent podcast. Thank you for recording this! It’s so validating to learn that we should be treated with respect and kindness, and see what that looks like. Also, I miss my dad. The older I get, the more I learn, the more I realize he was a feminist. I was so incredibly blessed to have a feminist dad.
Sad and extremely relatable.
Is it possible for me to share this on FB, please? Thank you.
Yes please do. Just post the link to Facebook.
Thank you. I’ve tried every way I can think of to do that and it still won’t appear on my Facebook feed. Very strange.
It finally appeared . Not sure what took so long. Thank you!
Not me mispronouncing your last name in my head for the last year 🙈
This was amazing and I could feel the positive energy in this discussion.
I just want to know more about the frogs.
Again, so so good. Thank you to you and Jeff. He is a breath of fresh air. You are both so articulate and concise. Men would do well to listen to this, especially if they actually want healthy sex lives with their appliances.
Great podcast as usual. Focused a lot on how men get violent when they get angry but I tended to have the opposite experience - my ex would go silent and/or ghost me when he got mad (especially if he was mad about me being upset about something he did). I found this equally terrifying. Makes one wonder if the relationship is over if one raises any issues at all. And pulled me into the pursuit-distance dynamic - to stop him ghosting me I had to drop the issue and be ok with not getting any of my needs met.
Otherwise, if I pursued the issue, he would go into the concrete box and stop listening to me. Kind of like going into a sulk - or putting out a stink (love Zawn/Jeff’s use of the word “broadcast” in this episode). The ex said we should be responsible for our own feelings and not burden each other with them…but I still had to deal with the *externalities* of his feelings like silence and distance and sullenness. I.e. he still “broadcasted” his feelings even if he wasn’t articulating them or otherwise acting them out.
Pushing things roughly is violence. Silent treatment is violence. I hope you can make plans to leave. Get the information you need, document all of these violent behaviours. Follow Kaitlyn Jorgenson on instagram
Jorgensen
To the woman who deleted her comment - sending you so much love and hope x and also to you LoWa
This was so healing to hear yall discuss these topics! So nice for my nervous system to hear a man agree without defensiveness and also have so many great perspectives to add! Love this and looking forward to more
I dont know how to amplify those voices men like Jeff shaming other men for being fucking losers and weak for being abusive. I dont know what the best harm minimisation tactic is. I love the education you do zawn, I think the more women that withdraw their labour from men the better. The story at the beginning hit me hard as well.
I am one of the two men who listen to this podcast. Very helpful thanks!
And, seemingly from all interactions, an actually nice one, too!
Great episode. When you were discussing the guy who is abusive in order to get sex and you were saying if he gets a divorce he’ll have to show up at least part time as a parent. Most likely he’s going to become a victim tell the sob story to other women who eventually will become stepmom and she will raise his children. Another woman appliance pulled into the drama.
💯
This was so good! Thank you so much for taking on another way to share.
Thank you for this Zawns.
I love the format and want to applaude you for the idea of doing this with your husband. This is not a praise of him as such (though he seems like a good husband), but more a comment on your last part about the audience.
When you talk and your husband listens and refers to your knowledge and authority this is such a strong message in the world we live in (however much I hate that this is the case).
Also modelling to us how men can respond in a constructive way and recognise these issues and how you can sometimes disagree on points. It is very powerful to listen to.
So thanks, to you both.
I get encouraging women to set boundaries and having directness. When I hear an example of healthy boundary setting, for some reason I’m trying to figure out, I perceived it as a “threat”’or an “ultimatum”. Obviously delivery and phrasing is a part of the difference. However, I think missing from the conversation about “directness” and women asking for their needs to be met, is that women are abused for doing this. Some of us were abused by our parents for doing this as children and then later on grow up to be abused by our male partners for doing this. While I agree it’s an important, we have to also recognize that the history of why women aren’t more like this or aren’t this way in a marriage.
It’s paramount for women to do this when first dating. They will see how these men will respond and be prepared to leave the instant he responds poorly or makes her feel all the things that women are made to feel for speaking “directly” or for having needs.
Wow. This was an excellent podcast. Thank you for recording this! It’s so validating to learn that we should be treated with respect and kindness, and see what that looks like. Also, I miss my dad. The older I get, the more I learn, the more I realize he was a feminist. I was so incredibly blessed to have a feminist dad.
First 30 seconds;
"...and he pushed me into a wall!"
WHAT?! REALLY?! Jeff?!
"... and that was a reader's story"
Ohh... <huge sigh of relief> That was quite a ride! You got me with that one.