This is one of the most disgusting stories I’ve ever heard. I agree Zawn. This is outright malicious where the feels that he is owed not only a wife who is of direct service one to him but that if she is not overwhelmed and on verge of a breakdown, then she’s not doing enough and something is wrong. He wants her overwhelmed to make her more shut down and complacent to HIM. This sounds like her leaving could be a dangerous situation though.
Writer, push back on these requests of his to test the waters if you have not already and keep pushing back to make sure you can get out safely. Having a gauge on your own safety will help guide your exit plan.
He also may not mind an exit excuse though since these men are so full of themselves they think they will find women falling all over of them begging to launder their stained boxers all while bringing in the money too.
You're not alone. I was the sole support for my family, but somehow also the person doing all the other stuff too, and somehow he still always had complaints. Nothing but complaints. So much easier now that I dont have to care for and pay for a full grown man in addition to myself and my kids.
It’s shocking to see how some men are able to exploit the assumption that this would be the same workload-expectation for upper-middle class and above “traditional role” wives. It’s not, not even close to the same amount of work. I’m a medical wife (was a fellow stem grad, typical story of the “opted out” vs “pushed out” that’s a different topic for another time) but there’s a definite exploitation of this assumption that you should be grateful to work more for less.
There’s a definite class distinction in the lifestyles and it used to be considered shameful or selfish to reveal how good you have it (for both men and women) but I think it’s necessary to speak frankly about these realities so that it’s not used against women since they’re clearly taking on much more than can be justified the more these everyday experiences are coming to light. I’m incensed for these women, this is outrageous!
I don't know if there is a connection, but in rabbit-holing a few years ago I saw there was a group of men on the internet (this was about 5 years ago?) who said that women's 'load-bearing' requirement is 4 children. This means that unless a woman has 3-4 children she will be neurotic, unhappy, mentally unbalanced, and destabilize the man's life. They present this as science. Apparently all of these men talk to women they meet with 5+ children who have told them, Yes this is exactly true, my mind did not become clear until I had 4 children.
(Ugh, I can't seem to return within the comment or delete!) Even among women there is a spectrum of what women are willing to accept from men, and this changes. We don't talk about this, but a lot of female conditioning happens within class identities. In certain classes women consider it an 'attractive' trait in another female if she seems to be incapable of critical thinking, and assumes only positive intent--the greater blind spot she is able to maintain, the greater the virtue (even in non-religious and even anti-religious community). In both certain socio-economic classes and ethnic cultures/racial groups women are pushed into distortions that increase the value of the men in that class or group. And women are groomed for this from a very young age by their communities--male and female, liberal and conservative, whatever...because identity transcends all of that. Also, as Zawn observes, women at different ages and stages in their lives find certain types of misogyny more acceptable, then less, given what is required of her to reach her goals for that window of her life. I find all of this discussion interesting and revealing. And as we continue, we'll likely see these complexities filter in.
LR, oh my gawd! I clearly recognize two women I know with the "assume only positive intent" in your words. One with 4 kids and one with 3. Very traditional!
I don’t think it is traditional. Many of the least traditional people are exactly like this. Different personalities present differently, but the same thing cuts across.
A.k.a, 4+ children puts women in a posiiton of becoming much more dependent on them (and thus less likely to leave) because of the workload of 4+ kids. 😮💨
Yes, but I think it was also about optimizing the work they could extract from the women. This was a group of Libertarian men. What was amazing to me was that they talked quite a bit about 'reciprocity', but they saw women as devoted slaves to whom reciprocity was not required. Of course if they are slaves, technically all of their labor is really the labor of the man, and if it is maximized it is to the credit of her owner, the man. I see this worldview in almost all of these men.
This is an extreme case, but it seems that subtler version of this philosophies are everywhere. Think about all the pushback people get for convenience food, whether it's instant oatmeal, pre-chopped vegetables, having your kids get the school lunch, or single serve containers. Sometimes it's couched in environmental terms, sometimes in health/diet terms, and sometimes no one really has a good reason for it.
It took me a long time to get over my own internal biases and change my habits to make my own life easier.
What you are writing about is also real, but actually this letter is about control. He's just trying to control her. The "reasons" are irrelevant - if it wasn't about the dishwasher, it would be something else.
I went to the link about the stepmothers and my god. It makes my blood boil.
Most single mothers do almost all the work and financial support for their children, even after they re-marry, re-partner.
Most single fathers do almost none of the work for their children (and even financial support is iffy) after they re-marry, re-partner. And they tend to remarry/re-partner fast for this exact reason. I work with a decent number of stepmothers...all but one is being exploited for their labor in taking care of their step kids. It's so very normal. And wrong.
Ok - that rant was not related to THIS article, but this article is spot on too.
This writer is living with a leech who is sucking the life out of her. And he's doing it on purpose. If he wants no dishwasher, then he needs to do 100% of all dishes, every single day (not leaving them in the sink for days to attract bugs) AND still do a fair share of all the other work (the dishes don't become an excuse to avoid all the other work). Clearly, this man isn't doing that. He's exploiting her. He's exploiting her while she supports them financially, she does all the work, and, likely, she feels guilty about not doing enough. I hope she leaves sooner than 12-24 months.
I got myself stuck in an interesting relationship dynamic (out now). I didn't expect a new partner to be financially or otherwise responsible for my kids, and because of this, it took me a lot longer to recognize that he was exploiting me. It wasn't until he began to claim that he was financially supporting the kids (again, he was not. Not at all. Not even a little bit. In fact, I was bailing him out financially on a regular basis because he kept having "bad luck") that I could see how much he wasn't doing.
The whole abuse by overwhelming her is a constant in my relationship (even after split, because we share a child).
It is so, so true that the biggest gift you are giving the world Zawns, is putting words to the experience of so many women across the world. Words for things they grew up believing they were all alone in. Issues due to their own faulty selves. Their own failures as women and humans.
My husband models his expectations of me on his highly brainwashed and traumatized boomer mom. She went back to work 2 weeks postpartum with both kids, despite them being under 5lbs when brought home. She earned the majority of the money in their marriage, but had no say on how it was spent, she did ALL of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, arranging childcare (she hated to be with her kids, but unfortunately she chose to have kids because that’s what her generation did), servicing her AH husband, who repaid her by running the lawnmower once in a while, incessantly sweeping the driveway, verbally abusing her, and cheating on her (once proven, but I fully believe that was just the ONLY time he was caught). She is currently barely living with chronic poor health, grey as ditchwater, due to what (I believe) are obvious signs of her untreated trauma and chronic stress, and yet she is a PROUD pick-me and enthusiastically participated in putting me down for refusing to live HER life with her son. In any argument, my husband has always put on “her” voice when mimicking me - readers, I’m from the UK and she is Canadian, we couldn’t sound LESS alike, but it’s very revealing that in his mind all women are just worse versions of his mom. My husband has always been enraged that I did exactly what we discussed and agreed to do, by becoming a SAHM so our kids would not be neglected like we were, no one would abuse them when we were not home, as happened to both of us, and I succeeded despite his constant interference and abuse. Nothing I do is ever enough, and I fully relate to the story where he is demanding that she do labour that is as difficult as possible. As apart of an agreement to remain married (supposedly he will get help to do better as part of this, but is not) we moved to a house that was not a broken down shack and I demanded a dishwasher. So he refused to install it for over a year. I stood my ground and did not do much in the way of dishes that entire time because that was the agreement we made. He has subjected me to greater abuse since the move than ever before! He feels the need to dominate me and force me to work harder than necessary. It’s only one of thousands of examples I have.
I absolutely am, but with two young adults and a cost of living crisis, I just don’t see a way out right now. He has promised me MANY times that he will quit his job and disappear if he is made to pay me alimony, and the province I live in doesn’t award alimony pretty much ever, and I made the mistake of of living together for the first 10 years and that is not allowed in the support calculation, so I would essentially get half of what we own, including debts, and that would be that. It wouldn’t be possible for me to buy anywhere without him, and rents are WILD in my region, I’d barely be able to afford a single room in a shared rental and that leaves my kids homeless or forced to live with him, an abusive violent AH. My half of the money would only keep me houses for a year before u was right back in the same position, homeless and without a retirement plan. I am trying to see a way, but it’s very hard.
Every single one of these both resonates with my own experience and makes me want to set my keyboard on fire.
Writer, your husband is overflowing with bovine excrement. You and your child will have more time and space to flourish without him.
This is one of the most disgusting stories I’ve ever heard. I agree Zawn. This is outright malicious where the feels that he is owed not only a wife who is of direct service one to him but that if she is not overwhelmed and on verge of a breakdown, then she’s not doing enough and something is wrong. He wants her overwhelmed to make her more shut down and complacent to HIM. This sounds like her leaving could be a dangerous situation though.
Writer, push back on these requests of his to test the waters if you have not already and keep pushing back to make sure you can get out safely. Having a gauge on your own safety will help guide your exit plan.
He also may not mind an exit excuse though since these men are so full of themselves they think they will find women falling all over of them begging to launder their stained boxers all while bringing in the money too.
They truly think they’re entitled to women’s time and stress and service
You're not alone. I was the sole support for my family, but somehow also the person doing all the other stuff too, and somehow he still always had complaints. Nothing but complaints. So much easier now that I dont have to care for and pay for a full grown man in addition to myself and my kids.
Same. Only earner (not by choice), did most of the housework and all emotional labour. Still only got criticism and complaints. The audacity.
It’s shocking to see how some men are able to exploit the assumption that this would be the same workload-expectation for upper-middle class and above “traditional role” wives. It’s not, not even close to the same amount of work. I’m a medical wife (was a fellow stem grad, typical story of the “opted out” vs “pushed out” that’s a different topic for another time) but there’s a definite exploitation of this assumption that you should be grateful to work more for less.
There’s a definite class distinction in the lifestyles and it used to be considered shameful or selfish to reveal how good you have it (for both men and women) but I think it’s necessary to speak frankly about these realities so that it’s not used against women since they’re clearly taking on much more than can be justified the more these everyday experiences are coming to light. I’m incensed for these women, this is outrageous!
I don't know if there is a connection, but in rabbit-holing a few years ago I saw there was a group of men on the internet (this was about 5 years ago?) who said that women's 'load-bearing' requirement is 4 children. This means that unless a woman has 3-4 children she will be neurotic, unhappy, mentally unbalanced, and destabilize the man's life. They present this as science. Apparently all of these men talk to women they meet with 5+ children who have told them, Yes this is exactly true, my mind did not become clear until I had 4 children.
Having done a LOT of this rabbit-hole watching and listening over the last decade I've come to these conclusions:
(Ugh, I can't seem to return within the comment or delete!) Even among women there is a spectrum of what women are willing to accept from men, and this changes. We don't talk about this, but a lot of female conditioning happens within class identities. In certain classes women consider it an 'attractive' trait in another female if she seems to be incapable of critical thinking, and assumes only positive intent--the greater blind spot she is able to maintain, the greater the virtue (even in non-religious and even anti-religious community). In both certain socio-economic classes and ethnic cultures/racial groups women are pushed into distortions that increase the value of the men in that class or group. And women are groomed for this from a very young age by their communities--male and female, liberal and conservative, whatever...because identity transcends all of that. Also, as Zawn observes, women at different ages and stages in their lives find certain types of misogyny more acceptable, then less, given what is required of her to reach her goals for that window of her life. I find all of this discussion interesting and revealing. And as we continue, we'll likely see these complexities filter in.
LR, oh my gawd! I clearly recognize two women I know with the "assume only positive intent" in your words. One with 4 kids and one with 3. Very traditional!
I don’t think it is traditional. Many of the least traditional people are exactly like this. Different personalities present differently, but the same thing cuts across.
A.k.a, 4+ children puts women in a posiiton of becoming much more dependent on them (and thus less likely to leave) because of the workload of 4+ kids. 😮💨
Yes, but I think it was also about optimizing the work they could extract from the women. This was a group of Libertarian men. What was amazing to me was that they talked quite a bit about 'reciprocity', but they saw women as devoted slaves to whom reciprocity was not required. Of course if they are slaves, technically all of their labor is really the labor of the man, and if it is maximized it is to the credit of her owner, the man. I see this worldview in almost all of these men.
These men are BOLD in their uselessness. There was a time when their bullshit was more covert, but now…😒
This is an extreme case, but it seems that subtler version of this philosophies are everywhere. Think about all the pushback people get for convenience food, whether it's instant oatmeal, pre-chopped vegetables, having your kids get the school lunch, or single serve containers. Sometimes it's couched in environmental terms, sometimes in health/diet terms, and sometimes no one really has a good reason for it.
It took me a long time to get over my own internal biases and change my habits to make my own life easier.
What you are writing about is also real, but actually this letter is about control. He's just trying to control her. The "reasons" are irrelevant - if it wasn't about the dishwasher, it would be something else.
I went to the link about the stepmothers and my god. It makes my blood boil.
Most single mothers do almost all the work and financial support for their children, even after they re-marry, re-partner.
Most single fathers do almost none of the work for their children (and even financial support is iffy) after they re-marry, re-partner. And they tend to remarry/re-partner fast for this exact reason. I work with a decent number of stepmothers...all but one is being exploited for their labor in taking care of their step kids. It's so very normal. And wrong.
Ok - that rant was not related to THIS article, but this article is spot on too.
This writer is living with a leech who is sucking the life out of her. And he's doing it on purpose. If he wants no dishwasher, then he needs to do 100% of all dishes, every single day (not leaving them in the sink for days to attract bugs) AND still do a fair share of all the other work (the dishes don't become an excuse to avoid all the other work). Clearly, this man isn't doing that. He's exploiting her. He's exploiting her while she supports them financially, she does all the work, and, likely, she feels guilty about not doing enough. I hope she leaves sooner than 12-24 months.
I got myself stuck in an interesting relationship dynamic (out now). I didn't expect a new partner to be financially or otherwise responsible for my kids, and because of this, it took me a lot longer to recognize that he was exploiting me. It wasn't until he began to claim that he was financially supporting the kids (again, he was not. Not at all. Not even a little bit. In fact, I was bailing him out financially on a regular basis because he kept having "bad luck") that I could see how much he wasn't doing.
The whole abuse by overwhelming her is a constant in my relationship (even after split, because we share a child).
It is so, so true that the biggest gift you are giving the world Zawns, is putting words to the experience of so many women across the world. Words for things they grew up believing they were all alone in. Issues due to their own faulty selves. Their own failures as women and humans.
My husband models his expectations of me on his highly brainwashed and traumatized boomer mom. She went back to work 2 weeks postpartum with both kids, despite them being under 5lbs when brought home. She earned the majority of the money in their marriage, but had no say on how it was spent, she did ALL of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, arranging childcare (she hated to be with her kids, but unfortunately she chose to have kids because that’s what her generation did), servicing her AH husband, who repaid her by running the lawnmower once in a while, incessantly sweeping the driveway, verbally abusing her, and cheating on her (once proven, but I fully believe that was just the ONLY time he was caught). She is currently barely living with chronic poor health, grey as ditchwater, due to what (I believe) are obvious signs of her untreated trauma and chronic stress, and yet she is a PROUD pick-me and enthusiastically participated in putting me down for refusing to live HER life with her son. In any argument, my husband has always put on “her” voice when mimicking me - readers, I’m from the UK and she is Canadian, we couldn’t sound LESS alike, but it’s very revealing that in his mind all women are just worse versions of his mom. My husband has always been enraged that I did exactly what we discussed and agreed to do, by becoming a SAHM so our kids would not be neglected like we were, no one would abuse them when we were not home, as happened to both of us, and I succeeded despite his constant interference and abuse. Nothing I do is ever enough, and I fully relate to the story where he is demanding that she do labour that is as difficult as possible. As apart of an agreement to remain married (supposedly he will get help to do better as part of this, but is not) we moved to a house that was not a broken down shack and I demanded a dishwasher. So he refused to install it for over a year. I stood my ground and did not do much in the way of dishes that entire time because that was the agreement we made. He has subjected me to greater abuse since the move than ever before! He feels the need to dominate me and force me to work harder than necessary. It’s only one of thousands of examples I have.
Please tell me you are developing a plan to leave him! Ask us here for help if you need tips on figuring that out.
I absolutely am, but with two young adults and a cost of living crisis, I just don’t see a way out right now. He has promised me MANY times that he will quit his job and disappear if he is made to pay me alimony, and the province I live in doesn’t award alimony pretty much ever, and I made the mistake of of living together for the first 10 years and that is not allowed in the support calculation, so I would essentially get half of what we own, including debts, and that would be that. It wouldn’t be possible for me to buy anywhere without him, and rents are WILD in my region, I’d barely be able to afford a single room in a shared rental and that leaves my kids homeless or forced to live with him, an abusive violent AH. My half of the money would only keep me houses for a year before u was right back in the same position, homeless and without a retirement plan. I am trying to see a way, but it’s very hard.
Brilliant as usual!
This one feels like it was written for me... unfortunately
Hugs. 🧡
“Maliciously lazy.”
Hooboy. Another zinger of truth from Zawn.