Problem with men in therapy is they instantly size up the situation and realize a) no one in the arrangement has the threat potential / fortitude to make him change what he’s doing and b) therapy is a goldmine of emotional manipulation tools and opportunities he can take advantage of to advance his interests and maintain his superior position in the marriage hierarchy.
When men step into the therapy room they enter a world that’s inverted to what they normally experience. In a man’s daily experience, vulnerability and victimization are bad things that lower his status. Victimizing and exploiting his wife is proof that he’s really a man, that he’s superior. Other men congratulate him with envy, acceptance and recognition of his masculinity. Men will do just about anything to avoid revealing their actual vulnerabilities and victimizations. Every time women “open up” about being victimized by men and our emotional vulnerabilities, far from feeling bad for us, they feel affirmed in their superior position. “We do *that* to them, and they can’t / won’t do anything to stop us!”
But in the therapy room, victimization and vulnerability are valued and can *raise* men’s status. The therapist (9/10 the therapist is female) isn’t interested in status hierarchies and power, but in sharing feelings, which is the basis of female friendships. The man quickly realizes he can be put in the superior position in the hierarchy by revealing hurt and aggrieved feelings. The therapist sees the male revealing vulnerabilities as an attempt to bond and repair the relationship (because that’s what women do) instead of outmaneuvering the wife for dominance.
When the wife doesn’t relent in her requests, because no amount of revealing feelings can substitute for the man taking on household or childcare tasks, she (ironically) is seen as the one who is showing inappropriate domination and control. Getting out of actually doing the thing is seen as a reward the wife owes the husband in return for him “opening up.”
She’ll be supplied with various apologetic, supplicating “appropriate” ways to make her requests, not realizing the more she asks, no matter how nicely, the more she entrenches herself in the role of “nagging domineering wife.”
And even the husband doesn’t jump in revealing his ADHD, family history of alcoholism, feelings of inadequacy at work or home etc as a strategy to stay on top, he will relish in his wife revealing her own insecurities and vulnerabilities and store those to use and abuse in later status battles.
Wow. Thank you again for putting the thing in to words. This is my experience exactly. Thank you for reminding for of the myriad tiny ways by which my ex used to abuse me and our relationship. We started therapy 12 months into our relationship (red flag right there) at my suggestion because I was frustrated he wouldn’t do half the vacuuming. I was doing everything else but I guess in hindsight the vacuuming was the only thing I could visibly see that wasn’t equal. The inequality was exacerbated by the fact that I’d entered the relationship with a one-year old child. So I just kept doing the work, and my ex was happy to ride my coat tails. (Oh my gosh I just read that back, am crying now. What asshole would come into a new mum’s life and not help and allow her to do all the work while he played with the toddler and pretended he was dad of the year). He wouldn’t do the vacuuming because he was tired from his demanding job as a new teacher. Regardless of the fact that I was working and looking after my son, and we’d moved in together in a place that was closer to the school where he was teaching but meant an extra hour commute for me each day to get my son to his daycare so I could work. It all seems so clear now, but I was younger then and didn’t know any better. The therapy just put a band-aid on a gaping wound and extended a situation full of frustration and self-doubt. It would be five more years and another baby before I left him. But thank goodness I got out. It’s a hard grind being a single mum. But the freedom is delicious.
I once read a comment in a mom FB group asking about what other parents do when their baby is sick all the time (from daycare) and who takes time off to stay home with the baby when both parents work. Both parents were teachers (at different schools) and yet the husband claimed he couldn’t even take time off work. Everyone piped in that he didn’t want to take time off so he lied. One would think a male teacher would (1) be less misogynist than other fathers (2) understand children’s needs well. Nope parents had equal pay and equal jobs and yet the mother in the relationship was expected to balance it all while he continued to carry on with his life
This just knocked me on my ass. Finally summoned the courage to ask my husband to read Fair Play with me as we recommitted to weekly couples’ counseling. 💔
My husband is a physician and repeatedly tells me “I do more than any other husband I know” to gaslight my complaints. Nevermind that I was the only spouse working FT in the department. Then came the physical abuse... I filed for divorce but agreed to go to therapy after he said he would when I finally filed. I’d been asking him to go for 1.5 years before. My intention is to go because it’s cheaper to pay a therapist to hash these issues out with you than it is a lawyer. He already moved out and expects to just come and go from the house when he feels like it will spend time with the children. He’s made no plans to actually make a home with him and the children.
He aims to impress those older than him. I find he puts on less of a narc front with younger folks as he tends to think himself as better and wiser than those younger vs older. It’s been interesting to see him to have his guard down with a younger male therapist. Sadly I don’t think he would have given a female therapist a try. Needless to say, it’s too late. I cannot forgive or trust ever again.
We started couples’ therapy when we had backed ourselves into a corner communication-wise and needed someone to help us out. We dumped our therapist on the third session when my husband just straight up forgot (no excuses--felt awful) and our therapist BLAMED ME and told me to make sure to schedule future sessions at a time that worked for him.
“Why bother, when you can just move the fuck on?” A-fuck’n-men! So very thankful for my therapist who got us both in the room one time and after hearing us both for about 30 minutes said “you two need to be in individual therapy”. I was still uneducated at the time what that meant, but years and lots of education later l now understand the abuse was THAT clear. Thank you for your amazingly clear writing about situations that people try to act like are complicated.
The individual therapy line happened here just a few months ago. Would you be comfortable sharing how you came to understand the clarity in that? Thank you!
It took a long time and a lot of learning about manipulation techniques. I read several books on narcissists and personality disorders. Eventually it started becoming so clear to me what had been happening. I even printed a bunch of messages and highlighted the various manipulation techniques. I know some people say you shouldn’t focus so much on the abuser, but for me I needed a lot of validation that I wasn’t crazy. The Narc Decoder by Tina Swithin was one of my favorites. She’s the founder of One Mom’s Battle. If you are involved in the family court system I highly recommend her resources. Helena Knowlton of Confusion to Clarity Now was another who helped a lot. She has several blog posts that really explained what was happening and she also has a support program called “Arise” where o learned a lot of healing techniques. It was about a 2 year process for me and I’d take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, all the while trying to be the best mom I could to my kids (they were 10 and 13 when I left him). Eventually the judge spoke to them alone without me or their father or any attorneys. They told her basically what I had been saying for 3 years (they were 16 and 13 by that time), but she believed them. That was after 3 attorneys, a guardian ad litem and several therapists who didn’t support me. Like I said, they are 18 and almost 15 now and we are doing really good. Hang in there! Once you get through there are lots of opportunities to help to change the system, but keep yourself and your kids safe first.
Problem with men in therapy is they instantly size up the situation and realize a) no one in the arrangement has the threat potential / fortitude to make him change what he’s doing and b) therapy is a goldmine of emotional manipulation tools and opportunities he can take advantage of to advance his interests and maintain his superior position in the marriage hierarchy.
When men step into the therapy room they enter a world that’s inverted to what they normally experience. In a man’s daily experience, vulnerability and victimization are bad things that lower his status. Victimizing and exploiting his wife is proof that he’s really a man, that he’s superior. Other men congratulate him with envy, acceptance and recognition of his masculinity. Men will do just about anything to avoid revealing their actual vulnerabilities and victimizations. Every time women “open up” about being victimized by men and our emotional vulnerabilities, far from feeling bad for us, they feel affirmed in their superior position. “We do *that* to them, and they can’t / won’t do anything to stop us!”
But in the therapy room, victimization and vulnerability are valued and can *raise* men’s status. The therapist (9/10 the therapist is female) isn’t interested in status hierarchies and power, but in sharing feelings, which is the basis of female friendships. The man quickly realizes he can be put in the superior position in the hierarchy by revealing hurt and aggrieved feelings. The therapist sees the male revealing vulnerabilities as an attempt to bond and repair the relationship (because that’s what women do) instead of outmaneuvering the wife for dominance.
When the wife doesn’t relent in her requests, because no amount of revealing feelings can substitute for the man taking on household or childcare tasks, she (ironically) is seen as the one who is showing inappropriate domination and control. Getting out of actually doing the thing is seen as a reward the wife owes the husband in return for him “opening up.”
She’ll be supplied with various apologetic, supplicating “appropriate” ways to make her requests, not realizing the more she asks, no matter how nicely, the more she entrenches herself in the role of “nagging domineering wife.”
And even the husband doesn’t jump in revealing his ADHD, family history of alcoholism, feelings of inadequacy at work or home etc as a strategy to stay on top, he will relish in his wife revealing her own insecurities and vulnerabilities and store those to use and abuse in later status battles.
Stop telling men to go to therapy.
Wow. Thank you again for putting the thing in to words. This is my experience exactly. Thank you for reminding for of the myriad tiny ways by which my ex used to abuse me and our relationship. We started therapy 12 months into our relationship (red flag right there) at my suggestion because I was frustrated he wouldn’t do half the vacuuming. I was doing everything else but I guess in hindsight the vacuuming was the only thing I could visibly see that wasn’t equal. The inequality was exacerbated by the fact that I’d entered the relationship with a one-year old child. So I just kept doing the work, and my ex was happy to ride my coat tails. (Oh my gosh I just read that back, am crying now. What asshole would come into a new mum’s life and not help and allow her to do all the work while he played with the toddler and pretended he was dad of the year). He wouldn’t do the vacuuming because he was tired from his demanding job as a new teacher. Regardless of the fact that I was working and looking after my son, and we’d moved in together in a place that was closer to the school where he was teaching but meant an extra hour commute for me each day to get my son to his daycare so I could work. It all seems so clear now, but I was younger then and didn’t know any better. The therapy just put a band-aid on a gaping wound and extended a situation full of frustration and self-doubt. It would be five more years and another baby before I left him. But thank goodness I got out. It’s a hard grind being a single mum. But the freedom is delicious.
I once read a comment in a mom FB group asking about what other parents do when their baby is sick all the time (from daycare) and who takes time off to stay home with the baby when both parents work. Both parents were teachers (at different schools) and yet the husband claimed he couldn’t even take time off work. Everyone piped in that he didn’t want to take time off so he lied. One would think a male teacher would (1) be less misogynist than other fathers (2) understand children’s needs well. Nope parents had equal pay and equal jobs and yet the mother in the relationship was expected to balance it all while he continued to carry on with his life
This just knocked me on my ass. Finally summoned the courage to ask my husband to read Fair Play with me as we recommitted to weekly couples’ counseling. 💔
Why does it take courage to ask him to read a book? That feels like a bright red flag.
I know 😩 He had the same question. But I don’t think I felt that way for no reason.
My husband is a physician and repeatedly tells me “I do more than any other husband I know” to gaslight my complaints. Nevermind that I was the only spouse working FT in the department. Then came the physical abuse... I filed for divorce but agreed to go to therapy after he said he would when I finally filed. I’d been asking him to go for 1.5 years before. My intention is to go because it’s cheaper to pay a therapist to hash these issues out with you than it is a lawyer. He already moved out and expects to just come and go from the house when he feels like it will spend time with the children. He’s made no plans to actually make a home with him and the children.
He aims to impress those older than him. I find he puts on less of a narc front with younger folks as he tends to think himself as better and wiser than those younger vs older. It’s been interesting to see him to have his guard down with a younger male therapist. Sadly I don’t think he would have given a female therapist a try. Needless to say, it’s too late. I cannot forgive or trust ever again.
We started couples’ therapy when we had backed ourselves into a corner communication-wise and needed someone to help us out. We dumped our therapist on the third session when my husband just straight up forgot (no excuses--felt awful) and our therapist BLAMED ME and told me to make sure to schedule future sessions at a time that worked for him.
Wow that’s fucked
“Why bother, when you can just move the fuck on?” A-fuck’n-men! So very thankful for my therapist who got us both in the room one time and after hearing us both for about 30 minutes said “you two need to be in individual therapy”. I was still uneducated at the time what that meant, but years and lots of education later l now understand the abuse was THAT clear. Thank you for your amazingly clear writing about situations that people try to act like are complicated.
The individual therapy line happened here just a few months ago. Would you be comfortable sharing how you came to understand the clarity in that? Thank you!
It took a long time and a lot of learning about manipulation techniques. I read several books on narcissists and personality disorders. Eventually it started becoming so clear to me what had been happening. I even printed a bunch of messages and highlighted the various manipulation techniques. I know some people say you shouldn’t focus so much on the abuser, but for me I needed a lot of validation that I wasn’t crazy. The Narc Decoder by Tina Swithin was one of my favorites. She’s the founder of One Mom’s Battle. If you are involved in the family court system I highly recommend her resources. Helena Knowlton of Confusion to Clarity Now was another who helped a lot. She has several blog posts that really explained what was happening and she also has a support program called “Arise” where o learned a lot of healing techniques. It was about a 2 year process for me and I’d take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, all the while trying to be the best mom I could to my kids (they were 10 and 13 when I left him). Eventually the judge spoke to them alone without me or their father or any attorneys. They told her basically what I had been saying for 3 years (they were 16 and 13 by that time), but she believed them. That was after 3 attorneys, a guardian ad litem and several therapists who didn’t support me. Like I said, they are 18 and almost 15 now and we are doing really good. Hang in there! Once you get through there are lots of opportunities to help to change the system, but keep yourself and your kids safe first.
This is a gift. Thank you for offering it after fighting so hard for it. ❤️
I love that the judge took them aside without parents and they were able to be honest and she actually listened. Fuck yeah.