I had some of this, though I was fortunate to not have it as strongly. When I was still in the major suffering stage before recognizing it as abuse, my parents were the biggest proponents of “you just need some date nights!” or “how about a couples’ retreat?” To be fair, they didn’t know anywhere near the extent of what was happening, but I still found it frustrating as it implied I needed to do more or I wasn’t doing enough. My closest friends were actually really supportive, and helped me recognize that it wasn’t normal or how relationships should be. But that’s probably because most of them also divorced or are in the process of divorcing abusive spouses, so they were quick to point it out and encourage me to get free of it once I started sharing. And to their credit, even my parents have been very supportive once I said we’re separating. I think my fear of their reaction held me back from sharing the truth earlier. Most had no idea, and although surprised, they’ve believed me. You’re totally right: I gaslit myself and helped him look good to others and extend the charade.
That last sentence really struck a chord with me: “I gaslit myself and helped him look good to others and extend the charade”. If you wouldn’t mind sharing more, what made you realize that you did this and how did you work yourself out of it? I think I do this - I notice I’m saying things to others to make situations and behaviors better than they are and when said situations and behaviors are “over” (read some time has passed) I question myself on how bad it really was. It’s like there is an inbuilt mechanism to forget injustice, inequity and mistreatment to maintain the status quo. It’s so weird to hear my mouth go on with this and experience the dissonance from having been up all night pondering how I would manage life on my own. What’s going on here?
With others, I think the first thing I noticed was making excuses for him when others asked where he was at social gatherings that he’d said he’d attend with me and then he refused to go at the last minute because he was mad at me for something (like our baby shower). I noticed myself lying to cover for him, and it felt wrong but it took me a while to realize it, and it also took others specifically questioning it to remind me that he’d promised and wasn’t showing up. Another instance I felt fake was whenever others did see us together when he was upset with me, he’d be more affectionate with me in front of them than when we were alone, and I eventually recognized that my body was trying to tell me something: it felt gross and I didn’t want to be touched by him. Silent treatments were another; I didn’t mention them to anyone for years because I just accepted them for some reason (probably because my mom used that tactic when I was a kid), but eventually I saw it mentioned in an article as a form of abuse and a lightbulb went off for me. I eventually started tracking the cycles, actually noting on a calendar and in my notes app on my phone, to see how often he’d get upset with me and over what. It helped to see it laid out, and I realized I wouldn’t wish what he was doing on anyone. Same with touching me in ways I didn’t want: that came last, and thanks to Zawn: for years he’d groped me in front of our kids and when I pulled away or told him I didn’t like it, he’d either pout or play it off as “I just can’t help it! You’re so beautiful, and shouldn’t I desire my wife?” I knew I felt bad every single time he did that, and I knew it would be a crime for him to touch anyone else like that, but I ignored that he was ignoring that I’d clearly stated NO for years, and then I started documenting all the other times he’d ignored what I wanted, and it just piled up. Finally I started keeping a list of everything he does for me (not the kids, or the house, but for me to make me feel loved), and also a list of things I won’t miss. The first has 8; the second has 104 and counting. Any time I question if it’s really “that bad” I just reread my lists.
Thank you so much for sharing. Super smart with the list, it’s really telling! I do something similar but not with dates, maybe I should step it up. I think I’m so conditioned to look away from this stuff but my intuition says something differently (like the ickyness in your body). I just need to remember to listen to it rather than the forces that are telling me that it is crazy too. I have a dear friend who I record voice messages to when stuff happens also - feels really good to have a witness who can validate me. Trick is that I need to see and notice these things happening before I can put it into words! Like you I have lots of unhelpful stuff with me from my upbringing, so there’s just so much to unpack and get aware of. One step at a time I guess and keep on walking.
Did you start telling the truth at social gatherings and “expose him”? I feel like there is shame and anger stopping me from telling the actual truth there as I feel many will attack me instead (like: - why didn’t he come with you? - I guess he didn’t find it important enough. - Oh, but did you try and convince him?). It always just comes back to me, like regardless it is still my responsibility to make things happen. So usually I don’t go there unless it is with someone who really knows and loves me because I’m so sick and angry with this shame that gets put in my lap that isn’t mine to carry. I guess I need to build up more strength and awareness to realize that people who say things like that or put shame on me for stuff that isn’t mine are people I don’t want in my life anyway.
It was more that I just stopped covering for him, and I let his actions (or inactions) speak for themselves, at least in groups. But I did start confiding more in close friends, and eventually even my parents. In my case I was actually pleasantly surprised that everyone (who I know in real life) who I’ve told has been really supportive. It’s the online communities that have pushed back and felt sorry for him or suggested a million additional things I should be doing to support him and launch him into being a fully functioning adult or support all the possible conditions that he’s never sought diagnosis or treatment for. So… there’s some hope? I let my fear and shame and just plain disbelief hold me back for a long time, but now that I’m taking, I’ve found a lot of women sympathize and show support, but it’s usually in very specific groups (for instance in my case, a support group for those affected by people with covert narcissism traits). Find your community. If people don’t support you, then they’re not the ones you need around you.
Yes. I have experienced this. My family and friends support my ex partner because they think they know him better than I do. I have explained what happened but they seem to think I am exaggerating (the opposite is true).
I have a psych who I see as being on my side but who is actually just objective.
My career success in the past seems to have counted against me as I am seen as strong and capable and therefore un-abusable maybe? I feel like my story should definitely be fiction and not real life
Lundy Bancroft has a section in his book Why Does He Do That? about this. If I’m remembering correctly, it’s pretty common that close family and friends will side with an abuser because they don’t want to acknowledge that they were wrong about him. I’m so sorry yours haven’t supported you as they should.
Where I come from there is a cultural thing at play called tall poppy syndrome, where those that are successful are "cut down to size" so that everyone's the same. So long as you are doing well in some areas of life it is wierdly deemed "fair" that you get dealt inappropriately hard cards in other areas, it seems.
Combine that with the general apathy for domestic abuse and you have a recipe for certain members of society being completely unempathised with when they are going through hell.
I wonder if you might have similar cultural forces at play.
Spot on, as usual. I recently shared in an online support group for women considering whether to leave their partners how overwhelmed I am and wondering how I’m going to manage to take care of my two kids full time, continue to work full time as I always have, and provide spousal support for my STBX husband who has been a stay-at-home-dad (but carried none of the mental load while I’ve always been the default parent) because we’re planning to separate and he’s choosing to move 3,000 miles away from us and not provide any form of child support. The overwhelming response: that I’m cold and heartless for discarding him. Yet when it’s a SAHM facing divorce, all the advice is to lawyer up so she can keep the house, get maximum spousal support, and ensure regular and adequate child support. I am quite bitter about the whole situation, with my only consolation being that despite how much it’s going to suck financially, at least my kids and I will be free of the abuse and this cycle stops with me.
I think we, the working women abused are a whole new category and the world does not know how to deal with us.
I am seeing it often, and mixed in is the underlying assumption that it's our fault for emasculating these men by being successful in our careers, that is somehow our fault and our problem to fix (how?).
That's why it's so important to identify what is happening in the relationship is abuse. Once we can say that I think most of us are too action orientated to continue to put up with it. But it can be an overwhelmingly lonely road.
Yes! It took me waaaayyy too long to identify my situation as abusive, and I’m pretty disappointed in myself for that. I think I recognized the household inequity first, just because I was exhausted, but I still saw research on over/underperformers first, before finally finding Zawn’s amazing work. Then I recognized the emotional abuse, and all the many traits of covert narcissism. And finally the sexual abuse, which I still struggle to even accept that label. But it was. I’m discovering support for each of those, but still barely anything for primary income earners and overperforming women who have been carrying the load for too long and finally had enough. But you’re absolutely right; once I finally accepted it was abuse, I’ve moved quickly from the years of limbo and hoping it’ll get better to “I’ll figure out how to do this on my own” and taking the steps to get there.
I have 3 friends who are in similar situations. Primary earners with male partners that have excuse after excuse to not work and at the same time emotionally abuse them. These men behave like victims and the women are doing everything in their power to help them to get them functional and it’s draining the life out of them.
It’s so hard to watch but it’s 10 plus years for each of these relationships and it’s clear the men are manipulating the situations.
I wish this type of behaviour was discussed more as it’ s not a “high-functioning woman and an under-functioning partner” dynamic. These men are emotional, financially and who knows what else abusing these women and they don’t even recognize it and the couples therapy they go to just focuses on supporting the men to “function”.
I am so sorry to both of you for this situation, I cannot imagine having to be in the situation to have to financially support my abusers.
Thank you. I recently had a lawyer consultation where he very clearly felt bad for my husband as he “has nothing” and informed me that if I push for a divorce now, he could get up to 70% of our assets, $40k/year in spousal support for a few years, and only pay $50/month in child support when he leaves the state and doesn’t see his children for… who knows how long. The attorney clearly conveyed that he thought I was a horrible person for even considering it. It is so difficult for women without means to leave abusive partners, and also so difficult for women who outearn their partners to leave them. But I still wish more could, for the long-term benefits.
I noticed early on in parenting that those around me with SAH male partners, that most did bare minimum (ie merely kept their children live…barely fed). I only met 2 fathers -one a former teacher - who were active and engaged fathers and partners
This is unbelievable to me. It is like women are programmed to believe they don’t have certain rights within a marriage. They don’t have the right to ask for time for themselves or financial or practical-contributions from their partner.
This is fear based again. We are all programmed to keep the world a safer place by appeasing men.
And it is totally the wrong approach because you can’t ask an oppressor politely to stop oppressing. The best thing to do is remove yourself from the source of the oppression.
I firmly believe that women of European descent are saddled with epigenetic memory, specifically of the Burning Times. The Burning Times can be thought of as the longest-running and most successful eugenics project in human history: men selectively eliminated women whose survival instinct defaulted to fight, then they targeted women whose default survival instinct defaulted to flight - such that the only women left alive to have daughters were those who defaulted to either freeze (play dead) or appease.
After all, this is exactly how humans domesticated the mighty aurochs to become cattle nine thousand years ago on those very same Eurasian plains: by selectively breeding especially females for docility (and eliminating any animals that were too difficult to tame.)
If I'm right, this epigenetic memory would almost certainly play an outsize role in the propensity of women of European descent to side with the patriarchy against other women.
Not suggesting women of European descent should be let off the hook, but rather - if I'm right - this would change how we address the concern.
This is totally fascinating. The witch trials represent the fear that underpins woman’s compliance. Don’t upset the patriarchy otherwise who knows what will happen. And every man’s sense of omnipotence. We’ll kill them if they get too problematic.
Edited to add Men who supported women and did not agree with the witch trials and killing women were also killed. With this theory, it means that men who had a natural sense of justice and saw women as equal lost their lives. Maybe the majority on the fence were silenced through fear and the rabid were given a social licence to do as they please.
In current times we have a thin layer of civility and years of women progressing their rights through hard won lawmaking only to easily lose those rights as we see in Roe v Wade and the possible death penalty for pregnancy loss in Texas. The Lin layer of civility covers a set of beliefs that probably have not changed that much since the witch trials.
Fascinating theory. This reminds me of the fox experiment in Siberia that ran for 60 years. I had never considered it applied to humans before but you’re absolutely right.
I’d already unfriended all my female friends that had blamed me for my ex-husbands’ behavior and treatment of me, or else I would share this post with them. Thank you.
I’ve experienced this many times! Kate Manne’s descriptions of “himpathy” and “herasure” are brilliant at outlining the dynamics at play when women seek support for the ways men have harmed them.
I have also experienced the converse dynamic, where a woman complains about something her husband has done which is objectively bad, and someone points out that her husband is exploitative, abusive or at least very inconsiderate, only for her to turn around to defend the husband’s behavior, insist that they can’t judge them based on a small snippet (except we can and should—look up the concept of ‘slicing’) and call the other person sexist or ableist or jaded or something else to discredit them holding her husband accountable.
I have an example of this happening to me in a horrible situation last week. A friend’s husband who we have known for years had done some landscaping and handyman jobs over the years. Over time he exhibited a few parasitic types of behaviours, exploiting my kindness and good manners for his own financial gain, and others he has worked for have noticed the same. He had little regard for my opinions and feelings and irritatingly held my husbands opinions above mine even though I’m clearly the creative director of our home and garden. It’s a long and rather ridiculous story but I’ll do my best to keep it brief. He deeply wronged me. He completely overstepped and overrode my own opinions and feelings about my own furniture in my own home and showed up to take an item of furniture he thought my husband said he could have 6 months ago (again, a long ridiculous story). I politely explained that I’d changed my mind and I would like to keep it. He didn’t care what I thought. He was taking it. He completely dismisses my pleads not to take my item, and said my husband said he could have it. (This is all over text message so there is a written record) I continued to reason with him and he refused all reason. I told him he was stealing and I’d call the police. Next thing I get a notification from my ring camera, it was footage of him carrying my bookcase off my front porch and away- The bookcase was on my front porch so he came off the street to take it, no one was home at the time) That’s when I rang him and he continued to cut me off and mansplain that I didn’t even like my piece of furniture (so wrong) that’s when I got mad. I hissed at him like a gremlin “Liar” and hung up. I then rang his wife in tears, she said she wanted to help but she was saying the exact same things as him, using his reasoning “Andy said he could have it” and “it was an agreement and in Germany you keep your agreements” (we are in Australia, the man is german). I went into full flight and fight panic mode.
I was sentimental about my item he was trying to take. The thought of losing it to him in this horrible way was unthinkable for me. I was angry. I was in fight mode. She was cutting me off and arguing in the exact same way as him, not acknowledging or listening to my feelings about it. I ended up blurting out “how can you stay married to him he is a horrible, horrible man!” I hung up. I called the police and on their advice sent a sms “Erik you have 24 hours to return the bookcase or you will be charged with stealing.”
He returned the bookcase. I sent him a thankyou text. He sent a message apologising for the ‘misunderstanding and mistake’
This apology barely scratches the surface of what actually took place, it was not a misunderstanding but a wilful disregard of me as a person.
The next day I sent a message to his wife with the background story, which is fairly long winded and ridiculous and completely his creation. I kept it neutral, to facts. She returned a message saying we are not friends and she’s lost all respect for me. That hurt. I was having trouble understanding why. I got angry at his behaviour, at his dismissing of my own opinions and taking my possessions like he was entitled to them. But my anger means I am no longer worthy of respect?
I know I overstepped with the horrible husband comment, and I really beat myself up about it for quite a few days, but I realised eventually that it was true. He was a horrible man and I was telling truth. So I’ve forgiven myself somewhat.
A few days later, still processing this horrible event, I sent an email to the man, explaining the aspects of his behaviour that are problematic, that now he has shown no regard for my opinions or feelings he is a deeply unsafe person for me to be around and that I’d prefer if he stayed at least 20 m away from me. She sent me a response calling my message narcotic and threatening the police if I send any more communication. As if I am the one who was wrong. Or that I’m not worthy of a debrief and communication after the horrible event that transpired. Neither of them have validated what actually happened, brushing it off as a mistake. Yet my anger is not worthy of forgiveness. Feels like gaslighting in the extreme.
I had some of this, though I was fortunate to not have it as strongly. When I was still in the major suffering stage before recognizing it as abuse, my parents were the biggest proponents of “you just need some date nights!” or “how about a couples’ retreat?” To be fair, they didn’t know anywhere near the extent of what was happening, but I still found it frustrating as it implied I needed to do more or I wasn’t doing enough. My closest friends were actually really supportive, and helped me recognize that it wasn’t normal or how relationships should be. But that’s probably because most of them also divorced or are in the process of divorcing abusive spouses, so they were quick to point it out and encourage me to get free of it once I started sharing. And to their credit, even my parents have been very supportive once I said we’re separating. I think my fear of their reaction held me back from sharing the truth earlier. Most had no idea, and although surprised, they’ve believed me. You’re totally right: I gaslit myself and helped him look good to others and extend the charade.
That last sentence really struck a chord with me: “I gaslit myself and helped him look good to others and extend the charade”. If you wouldn’t mind sharing more, what made you realize that you did this and how did you work yourself out of it? I think I do this - I notice I’m saying things to others to make situations and behaviors better than they are and when said situations and behaviors are “over” (read some time has passed) I question myself on how bad it really was. It’s like there is an inbuilt mechanism to forget injustice, inequity and mistreatment to maintain the status quo. It’s so weird to hear my mouth go on with this and experience the dissonance from having been up all night pondering how I would manage life on my own. What’s going on here?
With others, I think the first thing I noticed was making excuses for him when others asked where he was at social gatherings that he’d said he’d attend with me and then he refused to go at the last minute because he was mad at me for something (like our baby shower). I noticed myself lying to cover for him, and it felt wrong but it took me a while to realize it, and it also took others specifically questioning it to remind me that he’d promised and wasn’t showing up. Another instance I felt fake was whenever others did see us together when he was upset with me, he’d be more affectionate with me in front of them than when we were alone, and I eventually recognized that my body was trying to tell me something: it felt gross and I didn’t want to be touched by him. Silent treatments were another; I didn’t mention them to anyone for years because I just accepted them for some reason (probably because my mom used that tactic when I was a kid), but eventually I saw it mentioned in an article as a form of abuse and a lightbulb went off for me. I eventually started tracking the cycles, actually noting on a calendar and in my notes app on my phone, to see how often he’d get upset with me and over what. It helped to see it laid out, and I realized I wouldn’t wish what he was doing on anyone. Same with touching me in ways I didn’t want: that came last, and thanks to Zawn: for years he’d groped me in front of our kids and when I pulled away or told him I didn’t like it, he’d either pout or play it off as “I just can’t help it! You’re so beautiful, and shouldn’t I desire my wife?” I knew I felt bad every single time he did that, and I knew it would be a crime for him to touch anyone else like that, but I ignored that he was ignoring that I’d clearly stated NO for years, and then I started documenting all the other times he’d ignored what I wanted, and it just piled up. Finally I started keeping a list of everything he does for me (not the kids, or the house, but for me to make me feel loved), and also a list of things I won’t miss. The first has 8; the second has 104 and counting. Any time I question if it’s really “that bad” I just reread my lists.
Thank you so much for sharing. Super smart with the list, it’s really telling! I do something similar but not with dates, maybe I should step it up. I think I’m so conditioned to look away from this stuff but my intuition says something differently (like the ickyness in your body). I just need to remember to listen to it rather than the forces that are telling me that it is crazy too. I have a dear friend who I record voice messages to when stuff happens also - feels really good to have a witness who can validate me. Trick is that I need to see and notice these things happening before I can put it into words! Like you I have lots of unhelpful stuff with me from my upbringing, so there’s just so much to unpack and get aware of. One step at a time I guess and keep on walking.
Did you start telling the truth at social gatherings and “expose him”? I feel like there is shame and anger stopping me from telling the actual truth there as I feel many will attack me instead (like: - why didn’t he come with you? - I guess he didn’t find it important enough. - Oh, but did you try and convince him?). It always just comes back to me, like regardless it is still my responsibility to make things happen. So usually I don’t go there unless it is with someone who really knows and loves me because I’m so sick and angry with this shame that gets put in my lap that isn’t mine to carry. I guess I need to build up more strength and awareness to realize that people who say things like that or put shame on me for stuff that isn’t mine are people I don’t want in my life anyway.
It was more that I just stopped covering for him, and I let his actions (or inactions) speak for themselves, at least in groups. But I did start confiding more in close friends, and eventually even my parents. In my case I was actually pleasantly surprised that everyone (who I know in real life) who I’ve told has been really supportive. It’s the online communities that have pushed back and felt sorry for him or suggested a million additional things I should be doing to support him and launch him into being a fully functioning adult or support all the possible conditions that he’s never sought diagnosis or treatment for. So… there’s some hope? I let my fear and shame and just plain disbelief hold me back for a long time, but now that I’m taking, I’ve found a lot of women sympathize and show support, but it’s usually in very specific groups (for instance in my case, a support group for those affected by people with covert narcissism traits). Find your community. If people don’t support you, then they’re not the ones you need around you.
Yes. I have experienced this. My family and friends support my ex partner because they think they know him better than I do. I have explained what happened but they seem to think I am exaggerating (the opposite is true).
I have a psych who I see as being on my side but who is actually just objective.
My career success in the past seems to have counted against me as I am seen as strong and capable and therefore un-abusable maybe? I feel like my story should definitely be fiction and not real life
Lundy Bancroft has a section in his book Why Does He Do That? about this. If I’m remembering correctly, it’s pretty common that close family and friends will side with an abuser because they don’t want to acknowledge that they were wrong about him. I’m so sorry yours haven’t supported you as they should.
Where I come from there is a cultural thing at play called tall poppy syndrome, where those that are successful are "cut down to size" so that everyone's the same. So long as you are doing well in some areas of life it is wierdly deemed "fair" that you get dealt inappropriately hard cards in other areas, it seems.
Combine that with the general apathy for domestic abuse and you have a recipe for certain members of society being completely unempathised with when they are going through hell.
I wonder if you might have similar cultural forces at play.
I understand this as crab mentality - when one crab starts to climb out of the bucket the others pull it back down.
⚡💯
Spot on, as usual. I recently shared in an online support group for women considering whether to leave their partners how overwhelmed I am and wondering how I’m going to manage to take care of my two kids full time, continue to work full time as I always have, and provide spousal support for my STBX husband who has been a stay-at-home-dad (but carried none of the mental load while I’ve always been the default parent) because we’re planning to separate and he’s choosing to move 3,000 miles away from us and not provide any form of child support. The overwhelming response: that I’m cold and heartless for discarding him. Yet when it’s a SAHM facing divorce, all the advice is to lawyer up so she can keep the house, get maximum spousal support, and ensure regular and adequate child support. I am quite bitter about the whole situation, with my only consolation being that despite how much it’s going to suck financially, at least my kids and I will be free of the abuse and this cycle stops with me.
I think we, the working women abused are a whole new category and the world does not know how to deal with us.
I am seeing it often, and mixed in is the underlying assumption that it's our fault for emasculating these men by being successful in our careers, that is somehow our fault and our problem to fix (how?).
That's why it's so important to identify what is happening in the relationship is abuse. Once we can say that I think most of us are too action orientated to continue to put up with it. But it can be an overwhelmingly lonely road.
Yes! It took me waaaayyy too long to identify my situation as abusive, and I’m pretty disappointed in myself for that. I think I recognized the household inequity first, just because I was exhausted, but I still saw research on over/underperformers first, before finally finding Zawn’s amazing work. Then I recognized the emotional abuse, and all the many traits of covert narcissism. And finally the sexual abuse, which I still struggle to even accept that label. But it was. I’m discovering support for each of those, but still barely anything for primary income earners and overperforming women who have been carrying the load for too long and finally had enough. But you’re absolutely right; once I finally accepted it was abuse, I’ve moved quickly from the years of limbo and hoping it’ll get better to “I’ll figure out how to do this on my own” and taking the steps to get there.
I don’t think there is support for any woman coming out of an abusive relationship. It is just not something our culture does.
I have 3 friends who are in similar situations. Primary earners with male partners that have excuse after excuse to not work and at the same time emotionally abuse them. These men behave like victims and the women are doing everything in their power to help them to get them functional and it’s draining the life out of them.
It’s so hard to watch but it’s 10 plus years for each of these relationships and it’s clear the men are manipulating the situations.
I wish this type of behaviour was discussed more as it’ s not a “high-functioning woman and an under-functioning partner” dynamic. These men are emotional, financially and who knows what else abusing these women and they don’t even recognize it and the couples therapy they go to just focuses on supporting the men to “function”.
I am so sorry to both of you for this situation, I cannot imagine having to be in the situation to have to financially support my abusers.
Thank you. I recently had a lawyer consultation where he very clearly felt bad for my husband as he “has nothing” and informed me that if I push for a divorce now, he could get up to 70% of our assets, $40k/year in spousal support for a few years, and only pay $50/month in child support when he leaves the state and doesn’t see his children for… who knows how long. The attorney clearly conveyed that he thought I was a horrible person for even considering it. It is so difficult for women without means to leave abusive partners, and also so difficult for women who outearn their partners to leave them. But I still wish more could, for the long-term benefits.
I noticed early on in parenting that those around me with SAH male partners, that most did bare minimum (ie merely kept their children live…barely fed). I only met 2 fathers -one a former teacher - who were active and engaged fathers and partners
This is unbelievable to me. It is like women are programmed to believe they don’t have certain rights within a marriage. They don’t have the right to ask for time for themselves or financial or practical-contributions from their partner.
This is fear based again. We are all programmed to keep the world a safer place by appeasing men.
And it is totally the wrong approach because you can’t ask an oppressor politely to stop oppressing. The best thing to do is remove yourself from the source of the oppression.
I firmly believe that women of European descent are saddled with epigenetic memory, specifically of the Burning Times. The Burning Times can be thought of as the longest-running and most successful eugenics project in human history: men selectively eliminated women whose survival instinct defaulted to fight, then they targeted women whose default survival instinct defaulted to flight - such that the only women left alive to have daughters were those who defaulted to either freeze (play dead) or appease.
After all, this is exactly how humans domesticated the mighty aurochs to become cattle nine thousand years ago on those very same Eurasian plains: by selectively breeding especially females for docility (and eliminating any animals that were too difficult to tame.)
If I'm right, this epigenetic memory would almost certainly play an outsize role in the propensity of women of European descent to side with the patriarchy against other women.
Not suggesting women of European descent should be let off the hook, but rather - if I'm right - this would change how we address the concern.
This is totally fascinating. The witch trials represent the fear that underpins woman’s compliance. Don’t upset the patriarchy otherwise who knows what will happen. And every man’s sense of omnipotence. We’ll kill them if they get too problematic.
Edited to add Men who supported women and did not agree with the witch trials and killing women were also killed. With this theory, it means that men who had a natural sense of justice and saw women as equal lost their lives. Maybe the majority on the fence were silenced through fear and the rabid were given a social licence to do as they please.
In current times we have a thin layer of civility and years of women progressing their rights through hard won lawmaking only to easily lose those rights as we see in Roe v Wade and the possible death penalty for pregnancy loss in Texas. The Lin layer of civility covers a set of beliefs that probably have not changed that much since the witch trials.
Fascinating theory. This reminds me of the fox experiment in Siberia that ran for 60 years. I had never considered it applied to humans before but you’re absolutely right.
I’d already unfriended all my female friends that had blamed me for my ex-husbands’ behavior and treatment of me, or else I would share this post with them. Thank you.
Same. I lost so many friends in my breakup.
I totally agree. The world (male and female friends) becomes very small after the traumatic ending of an abusive relationship.
I’ve experienced this many times! Kate Manne’s descriptions of “himpathy” and “herasure” are brilliant at outlining the dynamics at play when women seek support for the ways men have harmed them.
I have also experienced the converse dynamic, where a woman complains about something her husband has done which is objectively bad, and someone points out that her husband is exploitative, abusive or at least very inconsiderate, only for her to turn around to defend the husband’s behavior, insist that they can’t judge them based on a small snippet (except we can and should—look up the concept of ‘slicing’) and call the other person sexist or ableist or jaded or something else to discredit them holding her husband accountable.
Do we have a term to describe that dynamic yet?
What a brilliant post! This hits home because being blamed by other women is one of the most painful experiences in life...
I have an example of this happening to me in a horrible situation last week. A friend’s husband who we have known for years had done some landscaping and handyman jobs over the years. Over time he exhibited a few parasitic types of behaviours, exploiting my kindness and good manners for his own financial gain, and others he has worked for have noticed the same. He had little regard for my opinions and feelings and irritatingly held my husbands opinions above mine even though I’m clearly the creative director of our home and garden. It’s a long and rather ridiculous story but I’ll do my best to keep it brief. He deeply wronged me. He completely overstepped and overrode my own opinions and feelings about my own furniture in my own home and showed up to take an item of furniture he thought my husband said he could have 6 months ago (again, a long ridiculous story). I politely explained that I’d changed my mind and I would like to keep it. He didn’t care what I thought. He was taking it. He completely dismisses my pleads not to take my item, and said my husband said he could have it. (This is all over text message so there is a written record) I continued to reason with him and he refused all reason. I told him he was stealing and I’d call the police. Next thing I get a notification from my ring camera, it was footage of him carrying my bookcase off my front porch and away- The bookcase was on my front porch so he came off the street to take it, no one was home at the time) That’s when I rang him and he continued to cut me off and mansplain that I didn’t even like my piece of furniture (so wrong) that’s when I got mad. I hissed at him like a gremlin “Liar” and hung up. I then rang his wife in tears, she said she wanted to help but she was saying the exact same things as him, using his reasoning “Andy said he could have it” and “it was an agreement and in Germany you keep your agreements” (we are in Australia, the man is german). I went into full flight and fight panic mode.
I was sentimental about my item he was trying to take. The thought of losing it to him in this horrible way was unthinkable for me. I was angry. I was in fight mode. She was cutting me off and arguing in the exact same way as him, not acknowledging or listening to my feelings about it. I ended up blurting out “how can you stay married to him he is a horrible, horrible man!” I hung up. I called the police and on their advice sent a sms “Erik you have 24 hours to return the bookcase or you will be charged with stealing.”
He returned the bookcase. I sent him a thankyou text. He sent a message apologising for the ‘misunderstanding and mistake’
This apology barely scratches the surface of what actually took place, it was not a misunderstanding but a wilful disregard of me as a person.
The next day I sent a message to his wife with the background story, which is fairly long winded and ridiculous and completely his creation. I kept it neutral, to facts. She returned a message saying we are not friends and she’s lost all respect for me. That hurt. I was having trouble understanding why. I got angry at his behaviour, at his dismissing of my own opinions and taking my possessions like he was entitled to them. But my anger means I am no longer worthy of respect?
I know I overstepped with the horrible husband comment, and I really beat myself up about it for quite a few days, but I realised eventually that it was true. He was a horrible man and I was telling truth. So I’ve forgiven myself somewhat.
A few days later, still processing this horrible event, I sent an email to the man, explaining the aspects of his behaviour that are problematic, that now he has shown no regard for my opinions or feelings he is a deeply unsafe person for me to be around and that I’d prefer if he stayed at least 20 m away from me. She sent me a response calling my message narcotic and threatening the police if I send any more communication. As if I am the one who was wrong. Or that I’m not worthy of a debrief and communication after the horrible event that transpired. Neither of them have validated what actually happened, brushing it off as a mistake. Yet my anger is not worthy of forgiveness. Feels like gaslighting in the extreme.