A male reader wonders why his wife won't let him explain feminism to her, and insists that his high intelligence makes him unable to communicate with her in the way she prefers.
Dude. I’ve dated at least two men like this. Clearly not the most intelligent or educated out of the pool of men I dated. One of them used to throw random words around and repeat certain ones, using them incorrectly. I’d question it like Inigo Montoya, and he’d get so mad and tell me I was wrong (and sometimes even make up a reason) when a quick Google search revealed the truth. If we are using high school achievements, I was a National Merit commended scholar so I wasn’t particularly bad with words. He was like a B/C student who tried to access the vocabulary of his smarter friends.
That is a book EVERY female needs to read...preferably as a young teenager! It gives to much clarity to covert abuse, how an abuser uses allies and crushes many myths of abuse. Absolutely critical!! I have made sure every female in my life has read it and I give away copies of it to strangers/anyone who seems to need it/libraries when I have the means to do so.
May 4, 2023·edited May 4, 2023Liked by Zawn Villines
The second I read, "The numerous facets of the trans conversation" I knew this jackoff was not communicating in good faith. I'm trans. Fuck him. He's just another privileged man who thinks we are all DESPERATE to hear his many reasons why we should be exterminated.
Get out, letter writer. Kick his ass to the curb. Yes, the whole man. His kind do NOT change without some drastic shift in their lifestyle, and that means losing his mother-wife so he is forced to grow up.
I definitely got the impression he’s trans-exclusionary with this comment: “what seems to be the issue with modern feminism connecting with its intellectual roots is that we're now at least a generation deep in entertainment driven evolutions regarding feminism,” I take it to mean that he thinks modern feminism has become driven solely by trendy, pop-culture thinking and stereotypes. This ties in with the example he opened with that you noted, since trans-rights are a major topic in current feminist conversation. My impression is that he’s trans-exclusionary, and I wonder if that’s contributing to their conflicts.
That’s a gooood reading on this and I think you’re right on the money with his unreadable mess. It makes way more sense that he’s couching bigotry in what he deems to be “intellectual” speech.
I agree. There is NOTHING to debate about trans people, or feminism vs trans people. I am just so done with transphobia, I have 2 amazing trans (adult) children, and my heart breaks every day that our world is so awful because of a minority group of very vocal idiots
I want to think this wife doesn't exist and this is all some neckbeard's weird way to get off, but unfortunately I am married to a man who isn't dissimilar sounding to this guy. When we were young and in college, I got taken in for this sort of discourse -- now a mom of 3 in my 30s, I can't think of someone more obtuse or exhausting.
I think you're right on the money with your thoughts on ND; my husband is a diagnosed (but willfully untreated) ADHD-er, and very likely somewhere on the spectrum. There is something inherent in the rigidity and tangential nature of this guy's nonsense that rings familiar.
Same. I have met so many guys like this. They mostly settle down after they leave college, but this one seems especially...committed...to this way of being.
To me, he sounds like every entitled "nerd" who thinks that his playing D&D for hours constitutes both a disability and a protected class. Even his use of the word "foreplay" (ew) in an otherwise non-sexual sentence tells me he almost certainly thinks he's some kind of under-rated Perfect Man who any woman would be happy to be with on every level. I would not be shocked at all if he were sexually abusing her in some way or cheating on her.
I really think we need to stop armchair diagnosing these men because it comes with implicit excuses and explanations when there really is NO excuse for their behavior. My best friend is a Cis-Het White Man (TM) and even with his diagnosed anxiety disorder he would never DREAM of talking to me like this. Ever.
I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who noticed those particular details. Anecdotally, I have also known young men with a similar self-described background who ended up adopting a strange, retroactive form of speech that you’d be more likely to find reading Jane Austin or some other mid-18/19th century literary writer. When we were young, it was quirky, experimental and fun. As an adult it’s mostly pretentious, self-important and just plain obnoxious. No wonder his wife is at her wits end with him.
My husband also has ADHD, and I absolutely loved your use of the "rigidity and tangential" paradigm. This describes my husband to a T: Rigid and tangential at the same time. Whew. Thanks for that.
The talking in nonsensical circles to the point of brain fog for the recipient is not a tactic I've ever seen deployed in good faith. It's almost as if someone is trying really hard to hide what he's really saying.🤔
Also ditto to Jennifer, that was a hellacious red flag.
I dated a guy like this for a (very short) time, and the vagueness is INTENTIONAL and purposeful. They do it so they can claim innocence when you actually read their intentions correctly. Then they'll cry foul, act like you're victimizing them and accusing them of things they didn't *aCktChUaLlY* say.
I am raising two 'highly intelligent' 'alternatively educated basement nerds(D&D style)' and am married to man who is extremely successful in one of the 'nerdy elite' careers this guy mentioned. No one in my family has an easy or intuitive way with communication, much less conversational niceties.
All this to say that I am pretty practiced at parsing meaning and intention from the very people he is identifying himself with.
My 9-year-old can speak more intelligibly and empathically on topics like feminism and transness. My 9-year-old has a better understanding of their privilege and how it impacts their knowledge (or lack thereof) on issues affecting people with less privilege.
This is unbelievably sad. His wife deserves better. His daughters deserve better.
May 4, 2023·edited May 4, 2023Liked by Zawn Villines
I am a lawyer. I put that right in front because it is my literal job that I went to 7 years of college for to decipher and comprehend esoteric and often detail-laden arguments in writing. It is also my job to WRITE comprehensive arguments about esoteric bits of law and string them together in a way that makes sense to further my argument and position.
I. Cannot. Even. Tell. What you are trying to "communicate." I don't know what the topic of these "debates" or "conversations" is. I don't know what your position on the topic is. I don't know why you are trying to have the conversation or what happens if you do. I don't know anything other than that you seem to think very highly of yourself while also apparently believing that brains stop developing in high school.
But I can tell you this. Your wife DOES NOT WANT to "debate" feminism or the existence of trans people or anthropology. She especially doesn't want to debate those things with some guy who, absent any formal education in those subjects or in debate, has declared himself an "expert" and just makes vague statements about whatever "epiphany" he just had regarding them. She especially doesn't want to decode whatever the fuck you meant by your example regarding feminism and entertainment. I don't either, so I won't even be trying to figure out the point. You're wrong because you are just making shit up to argue about and then acting like you're doing her a FAVOR by "educating" her in these fields. In which you have no education or experience.
You are atrocious at communicating. And whether you know it consciously or not, always looking for a "debate" in your household and relationship is acting in bad faith. Not everyone wants to argue with you. Most people don't find it fun or edifying to argue with someone about random scientific or political concepts, especially when the person starting the "debate" has already declared himself an expert and The Winner.
The last guy I dated tried to do this shit at me about "physics." By which he definitely meant "a Fringe YouTube Channel I watched." He wanted me to "agree" that there's Loads Of Evidence to suggest we all live in a Matrix-like simulation. When I wouldn't entertain that "debate," he got all broody and mad at me for "not engaging in a discussion." The thing is, I did not want to have that discussion, there is no point to that discussion, and it would change my daily life exactly none if I were living in a "realistic simulation," which is probably not the case and likely not supported by any actual evidence gathered by real physicists. However, what WOULD happen if I decided to have that "discussion" is that it would last for DAYS and he'd never admit that his rectally-sourced opinion from some YouTuber wasn't equivalent to (or better than) any information shared by actual physicists whose entire life's work is figuring out the nature of the universe. He heard a thing he thought was "interesting," and he wanted an argument. That's it. He's not Extra Smart because he Noticed. He's just some fucking guy who spent his day eating snacks and watching YouTube. And I don't have to debate him or care about the subject at all.
Your wife doesn't want to argue with you. She doesn't HAVE TO argue with you or have a "friendly debate" about her life's experiences, or present you with "sufficient proof" that you are wrong while you move the goalposts. And she is FRUSTRATED by you continuing to shoehorn your random YouTube word salad opinions into regular conversations.
ETA: For someone who "prefers" the prose and/or speech patterns of the 19th Century, you are also very bad at that.
I love how you dissected all of his garbage. I found all of his excessively wordy sexist ramblings to be really hard to process, and for all that he called his wife "manipulative" I felt like all of his wordy sexist word salad to actually be quite manipulative and seemed kind of like gaslighting to me, at least my brain pretty much wanted to shut down when reading it the way it would when my abusive ex would send me gaslighting emails and I'd have to read them. In fact the way this guy communicates reminds me very much of my abusive ex, and leaves me concerned for his wife. There's just no empathy there, he's just so full of himself, and it's all so selfish and unconcerned at all with his impact on others. It was such a relief to see how you shut it all down and pick it apart - in fact the only reason I could continue reading all of his crap is I knew how you'd shut it down and was looking forward to seeing all of his manipulative statements getting picked apart, like I wish I could have done with my ex 20 some years ago when he'd pull stuff like that.
I don’t have anything to add here with the exception that I hope that this person’s long-suffering wife will land on her feet away from this garbage.
My was-band never struck me and he thought he deserved some sort of heroic medal for this. Nope. The emotional abuse he dished out was very painful and I’ve never regretted taking myself out of that unfortunate situation.
Yes. Some men think that hitting a woman is the only kind of abuse that “counts”. And if they don’t do that then they’re God’s gift who deserves fawning undying gratitude from the woman and to be waited on hand and foot.
Spot on. I’ve met two or so men who communicate like this and it is so utterly arrogant and well, false. People who speak like this are rarely intelligent. Any idiot can grab a thesaurus and craft some stupid sentences together. Only unintelligent people will find it intimidating. Actual intelligent people will see right through it.
So - these insecure guys just want an unintelligent audience to make them feel superior. What a sad foundation to build a life on! How exhausting!
I applaud your commitment to deciphering this guy's absolute nonsense. I got to admit, I did not make it through the entirety of his ramblings. There are entire ChatGPT discussions that communicate more clearly than he did - it made me wonder if someone wasn't having a laugh by auto-generating his responses.
I am a professional writer and I have two degrees in anthropology. I would be fired if I wrote like this. And I would never have passed my courses. There is something seriously wrong here - I’m wondering if this man is a troll, because this is so absurd. This is some of the worst writing I’ve ever read.
Sir, if you read this comment, please remove yourself from whatever social circles/weird online communities have taught you this is intelligence and learn how to communicate concisely and clearly. THAT is intelligence. Please get out of your bubble and meet different people.
Holy shit that was the most satisfying, glorious point by point response I have ever read to this kind of abusive gaslighting. Especially witnessing the dissection of his SUPER INTELLIGENT gibberish. Wow.
The only way I made it all the way through that godawful mess of a letter was because I was excited to see how completely Zawn was going to eviscerate him. Beautifully done!
How anyone could have a conversation with this man is beyond me. He comes across as trying to act more intelligent than he actually is and all anyone gets is a load of nonsensical rubbish. I am frustrated and annoyed just reading his garbage.
Dude. I’ve dated at least two men like this. Clearly not the most intelligent or educated out of the pool of men I dated. One of them used to throw random words around and repeat certain ones, using them incorrectly. I’d question it like Inigo Montoya, and he’d get so mad and tell me I was wrong (and sometimes even make up a reason) when a quick Google search revealed the truth. If we are using high school achievements, I was a National Merit commended scholar so I wasn’t particularly bad with words. He was like a B/C student who tried to access the vocabulary of his smarter friends.
I’m currently reading that book!
I have a Mr. sensitive but he is also a mix of quite a few 🫠
That is a book EVERY female needs to read...preferably as a young teenager! It gives to much clarity to covert abuse, how an abuser uses allies and crushes many myths of abuse. Absolutely critical!! I have made sure every female in my life has read it and I give away copies of it to strangers/anyone who seems to need it/libraries when I have the means to do so.
The second I read, "The numerous facets of the trans conversation" I knew this jackoff was not communicating in good faith. I'm trans. Fuck him. He's just another privileged man who thinks we are all DESPERATE to hear his many reasons why we should be exterminated.
Get out, letter writer. Kick his ass to the curb. Yes, the whole man. His kind do NOT change without some drastic shift in their lifestyle, and that means losing his mother-wife so he is forced to grow up.
YUP.
It's a lot easier to assemble a word salad than it is to say the reprehensible shit you actually mean. That's what he's doing to his wife, too.
I definitely got the impression he’s trans-exclusionary with this comment: “what seems to be the issue with modern feminism connecting with its intellectual roots is that we're now at least a generation deep in entertainment driven evolutions regarding feminism,” I take it to mean that he thinks modern feminism has become driven solely by trendy, pop-culture thinking and stereotypes. This ties in with the example he opened with that you noted, since trans-rights are a major topic in current feminist conversation. My impression is that he’s trans-exclusionary, and I wonder if that’s contributing to their conflicts.
That’s a gooood reading on this and I think you’re right on the money with his unreadable mess. It makes way more sense that he’s couching bigotry in what he deems to be “intellectual” speech.
I agree. There is NOTHING to debate about trans people, or feminism vs trans people. I am just so done with transphobia, I have 2 amazing trans (adult) children, and my heart breaks every day that our world is so awful because of a minority group of very vocal idiots
I want to think this wife doesn't exist and this is all some neckbeard's weird way to get off, but unfortunately I am married to a man who isn't dissimilar sounding to this guy. When we were young and in college, I got taken in for this sort of discourse -- now a mom of 3 in my 30s, I can't think of someone more obtuse or exhausting.
I think you're right on the money with your thoughts on ND; my husband is a diagnosed (but willfully untreated) ADHD-er, and very likely somewhere on the spectrum. There is something inherent in the rigidity and tangential nature of this guy's nonsense that rings familiar.
I feel immense grief for this woman. It's hard.
Same. I have met so many guys like this. They mostly settle down after they leave college, but this one seems especially...committed...to this way of being.
To me, he sounds like every entitled "nerd" who thinks that his playing D&D for hours constitutes both a disability and a protected class. Even his use of the word "foreplay" (ew) in an otherwise non-sexual sentence tells me he almost certainly thinks he's some kind of under-rated Perfect Man who any woman would be happy to be with on every level. I would not be shocked at all if he were sexually abusing her in some way or cheating on her.
I really think we need to stop armchair diagnosing these men because it comes with implicit excuses and explanations when there really is NO excuse for their behavior. My best friend is a Cis-Het White Man (TM) and even with his diagnosed anxiety disorder he would never DREAM of talking to me like this. Ever.
He definitely is getting off on his own display of verbal vomit and abuse of her by using that word “foreplay”.
I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who noticed those particular details. Anecdotally, I have also known young men with a similar self-described background who ended up adopting a strange, retroactive form of speech that you’d be more likely to find reading Jane Austin or some other mid-18/19th century literary writer. When we were young, it was quirky, experimental and fun. As an adult it’s mostly pretentious, self-important and just plain obnoxious. No wonder his wife is at her wits end with him.
My husband also has ADHD, and I absolutely loved your use of the "rigidity and tangential" paradigm. This describes my husband to a T: Rigid and tangential at the same time. Whew. Thanks for that.
The talking in nonsensical circles to the point of brain fog for the recipient is not a tactic I've ever seen deployed in good faith. It's almost as if someone is trying really hard to hide what he's really saying.🤔
Also ditto to Jennifer, that was a hellacious red flag.
I dated a guy like this for a (very short) time, and the vagueness is INTENTIONAL and purposeful. They do it so they can claim innocence when you actually read their intentions correctly. Then they'll cry foul, act like you're victimizing them and accusing them of things they didn't *aCktChUaLlY* say.
These guys want to be oppressed SO BAD🙄
Oh my goodness. Bruh.
I am raising two 'highly intelligent' 'alternatively educated basement nerds(D&D style)' and am married to man who is extremely successful in one of the 'nerdy elite' careers this guy mentioned. No one in my family has an easy or intuitive way with communication, much less conversational niceties.
All this to say that I am pretty practiced at parsing meaning and intention from the very people he is identifying himself with.
My 9-year-old can speak more intelligibly and empathically on topics like feminism and transness. My 9-year-old has a better understanding of their privilege and how it impacts their knowledge (or lack thereof) on issues affecting people with less privilege.
This is unbelievably sad. His wife deserves better. His daughters deserve better.
Hi, it's you, you're the problem, it's you.
I am a lawyer. I put that right in front because it is my literal job that I went to 7 years of college for to decipher and comprehend esoteric and often detail-laden arguments in writing. It is also my job to WRITE comprehensive arguments about esoteric bits of law and string them together in a way that makes sense to further my argument and position.
I. Cannot. Even. Tell. What you are trying to "communicate." I don't know what the topic of these "debates" or "conversations" is. I don't know what your position on the topic is. I don't know why you are trying to have the conversation or what happens if you do. I don't know anything other than that you seem to think very highly of yourself while also apparently believing that brains stop developing in high school.
But I can tell you this. Your wife DOES NOT WANT to "debate" feminism or the existence of trans people or anthropology. She especially doesn't want to debate those things with some guy who, absent any formal education in those subjects or in debate, has declared himself an "expert" and just makes vague statements about whatever "epiphany" he just had regarding them. She especially doesn't want to decode whatever the fuck you meant by your example regarding feminism and entertainment. I don't either, so I won't even be trying to figure out the point. You're wrong because you are just making shit up to argue about and then acting like you're doing her a FAVOR by "educating" her in these fields. In which you have no education or experience.
You are atrocious at communicating. And whether you know it consciously or not, always looking for a "debate" in your household and relationship is acting in bad faith. Not everyone wants to argue with you. Most people don't find it fun or edifying to argue with someone about random scientific or political concepts, especially when the person starting the "debate" has already declared himself an expert and The Winner.
The last guy I dated tried to do this shit at me about "physics." By which he definitely meant "a Fringe YouTube Channel I watched." He wanted me to "agree" that there's Loads Of Evidence to suggest we all live in a Matrix-like simulation. When I wouldn't entertain that "debate," he got all broody and mad at me for "not engaging in a discussion." The thing is, I did not want to have that discussion, there is no point to that discussion, and it would change my daily life exactly none if I were living in a "realistic simulation," which is probably not the case and likely not supported by any actual evidence gathered by real physicists. However, what WOULD happen if I decided to have that "discussion" is that it would last for DAYS and he'd never admit that his rectally-sourced opinion from some YouTuber wasn't equivalent to (or better than) any information shared by actual physicists whose entire life's work is figuring out the nature of the universe. He heard a thing he thought was "interesting," and he wanted an argument. That's it. He's not Extra Smart because he Noticed. He's just some fucking guy who spent his day eating snacks and watching YouTube. And I don't have to debate him or care about the subject at all.
Your wife doesn't want to argue with you. She doesn't HAVE TO argue with you or have a "friendly debate" about her life's experiences, or present you with "sufficient proof" that you are wrong while you move the goalposts. And she is FRUSTRATED by you continuing to shoehorn your random YouTube word salad opinions into regular conversations.
ETA: For someone who "prefers" the prose and/or speech patterns of the 19th Century, you are also very bad at that.
Hahahahaha. Mic drop. Man, FUCK that guy.
YES!!
Shhh, he's expecting that no one else will know enough about the speech patterns of the 19th century to call him on his BS 🤭
I mean, I'm no 19th Century Language Historian, but I read enough literature and watch enough Historical Dramas to know better.
I love how you dissected all of his garbage. I found all of his excessively wordy sexist ramblings to be really hard to process, and for all that he called his wife "manipulative" I felt like all of his wordy sexist word salad to actually be quite manipulative and seemed kind of like gaslighting to me, at least my brain pretty much wanted to shut down when reading it the way it would when my abusive ex would send me gaslighting emails and I'd have to read them. In fact the way this guy communicates reminds me very much of my abusive ex, and leaves me concerned for his wife. There's just no empathy there, he's just so full of himself, and it's all so selfish and unconcerned at all with his impact on others. It was such a relief to see how you shut it all down and pick it apart - in fact the only reason I could continue reading all of his crap is I knew how you'd shut it down and was looking forward to seeing all of his manipulative statements getting picked apart, like I wish I could have done with my ex 20 some years ago when he'd pull stuff like that.
Yes- my brain glazed over in that goodwill bin of words. Good gawd what a mess.
I don’t have anything to add here with the exception that I hope that this person’s long-suffering wife will land on her feet away from this garbage.
My was-band never struck me and he thought he deserved some sort of heroic medal for this. Nope. The emotional abuse he dished out was very painful and I’ve never regretted taking myself out of that unfortunate situation.
Yes. Some men think that hitting a woman is the only kind of abuse that “counts”. And if they don’t do that then they’re God’s gift who deserves fawning undying gratitude from the woman and to be waited on hand and foot.
Spot on. I’ve met two or so men who communicate like this and it is so utterly arrogant and well, false. People who speak like this are rarely intelligent. Any idiot can grab a thesaurus and craft some stupid sentences together. Only unintelligent people will find it intimidating. Actual intelligent people will see right through it.
So - these insecure guys just want an unintelligent audience to make them feel superior. What a sad foundation to build a life on! How exhausting!
I applaud your commitment to deciphering this guy's absolute nonsense. I got to admit, I did not make it through the entirety of his ramblings. There are entire ChatGPT discussions that communicate more clearly than he did - it made me wonder if someone wasn't having a laugh by auto-generating his responses.
I am a professional writer and I have two degrees in anthropology. I would be fired if I wrote like this. And I would never have passed my courses. There is something seriously wrong here - I’m wondering if this man is a troll, because this is so absurd. This is some of the worst writing I’ve ever read.
Sir, if you read this comment, please remove yourself from whatever social circles/weird online communities have taught you this is intelligence and learn how to communicate concisely and clearly. THAT is intelligence. Please get out of your bubble and meet different people.
And yes, stop being sexist too.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Holy shit that was the most satisfying, glorious point by point response I have ever read to this kind of abusive gaslighting. Especially witnessing the dissection of his SUPER INTELLIGENT gibberish. Wow.
The only way I made it all the way through that godawful mess of a letter was because I was excited to see how completely Zawn was going to eviscerate him. Beautifully done!
How anyone could have a conversation with this man is beyond me. He comes across as trying to act more intelligent than he actually is and all anyone gets is a load of nonsensical rubbish. I am frustrated and annoyed just reading his garbage.