The one she wrote about how we need to not give men the benefit of doubt and instead of letting them in and watching for red flags we need to keep them at arms length until we see some green flags. ❤️❤️ BRILLIANT!! I wish I had seen writing like this in my 20s and 30s.
Although I have to admit as soon as I didn’t need a man to split the rent with me I instantly became uninterested in dealing with them at all.
It wasn’t until I didn’t need one that I realized I don’t actually want one.
And the one outlining the reasons to avoid marriage should be available to women of all ages, everywhere. I had never seen this addressed so eloquently, and convincingly, before and I wish I had had access to it when I was 20. At least it will prevent me from making another grievous mistake at 60. And hopefully, my mother at 83.
Hello everyone! Thank you so much for this safe space, Zawn, and all of your incredible work. If it’s okay, I’d like to use this opportunity to ask you ladies your thoughts on my situation. It’s a bit of a long one so I really appreciate you reading.🙏🏽
My partner and I were dating when I was 23 years old - over 11 years ago now. He’s 9 years older than me. There were so many red flags in those early days but I was young and naive and didn’t know better. Anyhow, 5 months in, I fell pregnant. Bear in mind, I am from a Pakistani Muslim background so this is the ‘worst thing’ that could have happened to me. We felt we had no choice but to marry so we did, and he moved across the country to be with me. All the time we were dating, he wasn’t working, wasn’t pursuing any hobbies and wasn’t even looking for work. I was an entrepreneur/in the final year of getting my degree and it was my money that supported us. Moving in together, he was very emotionally and psychologically abusive towards me - even while I was pregnant. His family never taught him basic life skills like cooking, cleaning, tidying up after himself.. so all of this was also on me. However, once our son was born, he was very hands on with parenting and did a lot in terms of looking after the baby. Yet still no job, no income from him. I continued on with my small business, doing quite well. We moved countries, moved back again, had to move in with parents etc etc. Still, he wouldn’t work, no income from him. Come 2016, he had decided he wanted to move abroad to his parents homeland, but then I fell pregnant again. We decided we would go anyway. I had recently graduated from an online course in digital marketing and was working hard to get clients. He again, wasn’t working, or doing much of anything to be honest. We got a loan, used it to move countries. He managed to secure a couple of clients out there (under the illusion of it being ‘our’ business) but it was me, slogging my guts out and doing all the work while heavily pregnant in a brand new country with a toddler to take care of. He still wasn’t doing much of anything, although he was good with our son.
Second child was born, we grew really far apart, I had expat depression and I started resenting him deeply. I told him I wanted to leave him and come back to the uk with our children, he cried and begged me, telling me that he was so close to a breakthrough and he just needed a few more months to get started on building a business, creating an income for the family. I stayed. We came back to the Uk on holiday, and I told him I wasn’t going back until he started making some money. This was in 2018, almost 6 years ago.
We now have three children. We’re still in the U.K. The birth of my third child in the pandemic ended a lot of work for me, so since 2021 we have had no income. He has never worked. Never brought in any money. We rely on benefits to get by. I have my small business and other projects that bring in pocket money, but I don’t have the time or space to go all in on anything. I try my best but to my detriment, as the majority of the household labour is also on me - actually all of it. Once in a while he’ll wash the dishes or hang the clothes.
He has changed over the years. We have a spiritual path and we’re both very aligned in terms of that, and our interests. He is no longer emotionally manipulative or abusive. But his energy, his lack of enthusiasm for finding work or doing something he loves, kills me. He is always full of ideas, talking about how he’s going to do this and that, he gets all excited and riled up… but it amounts to nothing. No action. He does work on himself - he prays, meditates, journals. He’s a very calm, patient and kind person. He helps with the kids a lot. But every time I try to bring up my needs or anything with him about the relationship, he shuts down. In the past he has told me I’m to blame for how he is. Now, whenever I try to approach a conversation about our relationship, he sees it as an attack on him. Even when I’ve hardly even said anything.
He is 44 years old. In our 11 years of marriage he has never had an income. We have 3 children who we are now “homeschooling’ which is also on me. I have so much on my plate already that the kids pretty much do their own thing all day. He has our children believing that we are moving abroad soon, and we’re going to live the life of our dreams, yet he doesn’t take any action towards it. The kids are so excited, always talking about it and that also kills me because I’m like “is this actually going to happen”. In recent days, he has decided on what he is going to do to bring in money, but blames our situation for not having the time and space to do anything or to get started.
I have wanted to leave so many times. We’re in a shit load of debt and have no income (although I try with the very limited time I get alone which is just a few hours a week to do what I can). Not to toot my own horn, but I am skilled, talented and have expertise in numerous areas. I could create an amazing income for the family if I didn’t have to do everything else. But he doesn’t know how to do everything else, and he wants to be the one to create the income. Leaving me stuck.
Like I said, he helps with the kids. Gets them ready for bed, gives them breakfast, changes a nappy or two. He drives and handles everything to do with the car. 2 of our children have some health issues so he handles prescriptions and appointments. And his elderly parents live nearby, his dad is sick and he often helps them too. His parents help us so much financially and always have (which I feel so bad and guilty for).
I honestly do not know what to do, with no income and nowhere to go. I don’t know how to have a conversation with him about any of this because he just shuts me down. I don’t want to knock his confidence at the moment with how excited and adamant he is on getting started on the new latest project to bring in an income, by saying anything. I don’t know whether to give him an ultimatum. I just feel like time and life is being wasted and nothing ever changes. I feel like all of this is negatively impacting the children’s lives too. It’s like we’ve been living in limbo for so long. I don’t know whether I expect too much? I know it sounds crazy. Because me and him have a pretty decent friendship. We can talk about pretty much anything on a deep level (apart from our relationship, aha!). He does so much more for our children than I have ever seen any man in my own immediate family do. He is very peaceful, centred, calm and self-aware - these are not traits you don’t find very often, and I often tell myself that I should count myself lucky. I just don’t know whether I want or expect too much from him. He has suffered from severe depression in the past and I believe it has lingered in him ever since I’ve known him, resulting in him being stuck in the freeze response.
Life is okay, generally. But I know I don’t want okay. I want amazing.
So that’s my question. Am I expecting too much? Should I even broach the subject of having a conversation with him, knowing that it will most likely result in him shutting down and going back to square 1? What would you do in this situation? I don’t want to hurt him or be unkind or be the reason that he believes he is incapable of doing anything. I know other women wouldn’t have stood for this for so long but I feel stuck because I genuinely do believe he is a good person with a kind heart and a pure soul but I feel like I’m ready to leave. Or ask him to leave.
Yep this works just fine for him. She either needs to leave and leave the kids with him, or stop doing literally everything so he has to. Why would he do anything if she’s doing it all already?
In recent times, he has started doing a little more - I guess because he senses something in me has changed. He gives the kids breakfast, makes sure they are ready for the day and has washed the dishes more times in the last 2 weeks, than he has in this whole 11 years. Our 2 boys also have health issues, he helps get them ready for bed and deals with their health stuff mostly. I dunno if that’s enough 🤷🏽♀️
I feel for you. You are not in an equal partnership. I don't see this getting better for you. As said already - this works for him, for whatever reason, to commit to doing nothing with his life - except breadcrumb you and his children. The fact he's selling them on dreams - as it seems he has done with you - is quite sad. I've watched family members promising their children certain events and having the promise unfulfilled. Over time it has created deep insecurity and anxiety. Ensuring your children eat, and get to school every day is the bare minimum, and he does not deserve to be congratulated for assisting in that happening.
A man who allows his wife to suffer emotionally in silence while he does nothing is not a good person.
I only know what you've written here but the kids who are old enough to be in public schools need to go to public school. This will free you up to work a job to bring in income and you should have him start seeing a psychiatrist for mental health. He is unlikely to change at this point. You need to decide if this friendship you have with him and what he does with the kids outweighs his inability/unwillingness to work. You are doing too much and he's doing below the bare minimum. Get your financial ducks in a row and leave him.
Thank you, Misti. He’s had therapy, coaching, counselling, at least 5 different people offering to help him start a business and guide him day by day. But nothing has changed his state of inaction. It’s like her has no spark in him, let alone a fire.
You married a NEET? I am so sorry!! I guess I just don’t understand why you have to do the homeschooling. If this man hasn’t had a job in almost 10 years what does he do all day? I have to assume you aren’t having sex with him because I can’t imagine being able to conjure up desire for a grown teenage slacker.
It’s more like 15+ years since he hasn’t had a job, I’m not sure exactly. I’ve never known him as a working man. I didn’t really know him enough before we got married to be honest.
And definitely NO to the latter part. It’s been a good long while.😅
You can think someone is a good person and still know that you don’t want to share your life with him anymore.
We don’t have to hate someone to realize they are blocking us from living the life we deserve to live.
He sounds like a man I dated. Full of dreams and wanting adventure, never able to work for it.
This thing he is doing to you and the kids with moving (and with his magical next job thing), is called future-faking. They do this to keep women trapped. He gets you to dream of his future with him, but he never actually creates that future. Either YOU create it for him while he does nothing and to falls apart, or nothing happens at all. He wants YOU to arrange his next adventure - moving abroad - for him. So he can have fun. And he’s got the kids excited in order to pressure you to make it happen for him.
Same with his supposed job thing - he’s got you buying into his potential so you won’t leave or change the marriage. And you feel like he deserves one more chance. But nothing will come of this either. He’s got a sweet deal. He doesn’t work. He doesn’t educate his kids. He doesn’t do much of anything except dream. You do it all, and he plays.
It’s ok to start living your own life. You’ll get so much farther. Maybe put the kids in school and start doing your own work again. See how it feels. Don’t move abroad. Enjoy some time to think and accomplish instead of scrambling to move and pack and unpack and find doctors and houses and schools. And see how that feels. Moving steals about 12-18 months of a woman’s life and potential. I know because my ex moved us constantly. All I did was pack and unpack and find doctors and houses and settle kids who were upset with change and find friends and routines just to leave them again. It’s really nice to stay put and stop making their dreams happen for them.
Maybe start making your own dreams happen for you instead.
Someone can be a lovely person and not right for you.
If you picture your lives diverging - is it better with or without him?
You are not required to be his forever cheerleader. You’re not the owner of his emotions or responses. If he believes he’s incapable of doing anything, then he needs to work on that.
It’s amazing to have someone in your corner, but I’d never use someone as a crutch for that long especially when I can see they’re drowning.
I definitely see and feel a life better without him as my husband. Not without him altogether. He went abroad earlier this year for 2 months with my eldest child - and although I did kinda miss him, I felt like a massive weight had been lifted and I felt freer. His energy in the home is heavy - I don't think he realises it at all though.
Are you mistaking him as calm and self aware when actually he's pretty passive and delusional?
I hear your kind heart in your post but this has been weaponised against you for so long. Any action you have tried to take to move the status quo or shift things/him towards motivation has led to you being made to feel bad. Your empathy is being used against you.
Without a doubt this man will not change. He has absolutely no incentive to. He has too much comfort, power and leisure to lose. The comment above about future faking is so accurate. He doesn't have to do anything to fulfil his goals because he has manipulated you to help him stay comfortable in the fantasy that one day they will be fulfilled, which is ultimately based on delusion and pipe dreams.
This is safer and much more comfortable for him than the risk of trying and failing. Having you underachieve and not continue to accomplish your goals outside of the restrictive family environment is also functional for him. Seeing you successful is too abrasive to his own unacknowledged insecurities and inadequacies. You must be kept small so his smallness isn't as noticeable.
I don't say this with any malice, but this is not actually a reflective or self aware man. He is passive, safety seeking, unambitious and defended. He can't seem to apply himself to endeavours or seek real adventure that would rely on him being successful (rather than you) because he appears to lack self efficacy and fears failure.
Your life without him would be hard work but no more so than with him. You could pursue fulfilling ways to earn income from a career that plays to your strengths without the envy of an idle man holding you back. Languishing in his dreams trumps you comfort or happiness. Zawn might call this a form of abuse.
I read his commitment to the children, he can continue to do that as a present co-parenting father without your supervision. His parents will no doubt continue to help him and your children - and maybe you too as the mother of their grandchildren. And you, my friend, you will experience a new kind of freedom. The freedom to choose 💜
After reading everyone's comments, I actually wrote my letter to him last night telling him I want to end the relationship (because I feel this is the only way I can fully share everything I have experienced with him and feel) and all day today I have been questioning myself again.
But after reading what you wrote here... wow. This is it. This is exactly it. Somehow throughout the last 11 years I have done the most incredible things and have achieved so much, without him ever really celebrating me or encouraging me. Since having our third child, I feel like his energy has slowly sucked the life and energy out of me too. I have BIG dreams but no time and space to make them happen because of him. Despite that, I push through and do as much as I can in the scraps of time and space that I get while he continues to talk about all the things he needs to do and will do, but never takes any action while also preventing me from taking the action I am so desperate to take. I'm just so so tired of trying to push through now. I'm actually sick of it and in my heart, this marriage is done. Thank you for helping me to see more clearly. 💛
I'm not a lady (I'm non-binary), but I just want to push back a bit on "He is no longer emotionally manipulative or abusive." Him not doing his fair share of labor (both within the house and financially) to make your household equitable qualifies as abuse, in my opinion. I'm sorry you're in this situation. You are not expecting too much. You deserve so much better. Zawn's research has shown that almost no women regret leaving their marriages. Another life is possible for you and your children. I'm sure you don't want your children to learn that it's okay for men to do exploit their female partners. You said the situation is already negatively affecting them. One of Zawn's pieces says people do not have the right to subject their children to abuse if they are able to leave the abusive environment. Your children (edit to clarify: all children) have extremely little power in society and that includes not being able to choose who they live with and which adults they interact with on a regular basis. Therefore it's your responsibility to make their living environment as safe as possible. I believe in you; you've done so much labor already just to survive. When you get away from him, you will only have to do the labor for yourself and your children, no longer will you have to sacrifice your life to carry along a fully-grown man. You said you feel like you're ready to leave or to ask him to leave. I would strongly recommend trusting that <3
Thank you so much, Soren 😭🙏🏽 I honestly would not describe the environment as abusive. Not anymore. But we barely even have a relationship as a couple, we’re like coparents living together in an unequal relationship where his needs are more important than mine.
He has some health issues and I know he is internally not comfortable with our situation and him not taking action. He’s in constant battle with himself. Like, he wants it so bad but he doesn’t do anything about it.
Ahhh there is so much to this that I can’t explain in a comment, but thank you so much for your kind words. I definitely feel like I know what I have to. For me, it is done, even if I haven’t told him yet. 🙏🏽
The posts about holidays. How men ruin them, how men show up and just benefit from the labor (what it’s like to be a father), the posts about how women are mocked for “making a big deal” of holidays.
All your articles help me understand patriarchy better and how that results in household labour inequality. This article about patriarchy was really good, particularly the line about hating women is a side effect, not the goal of patriarchy. https://zawn.substack.com/p/were-getting-patriarchy-wrong-correcting
Your podcast with Desiree Stephens was amazing. Anything about decolonization and anti-racism, I'm all over it.
Would you consider writing an article on "am I overreacting/asking or expecting too much/am I being unreasonable"? Sorry if you've already done an article on it and I missed it. This idea is slightly different from this article, https://zawn.substack.com/p/no-youre-not-being-hypersensitive which talks moreso about emotions. This question is inspired by Sabah's comment on your current post where she is doing all the work, her husband is doing SOME things, he seems to be a good friend to her, and believes him to be a good person, yet everything is still on her and she's still asking "am I overreacting/expecting too much?" We all know this is not a unique situation. What can we say to women who ask this to help them understand, HELL NO, you are not asking too much/overreacting/being unreasonable but may actually be asking too little, underreacting and being completely reasonable? I would love your take on why we keep asking ourselves questions like this and what we should be asking ourselves instead.
I’m almost certain it was your newsletter where you were talking about how someone asked a man to pay attention to how he reacts when a woman speaks, to count how often he wants to refute something a woman says, or talk over her, or mansplain, or just basically tell her she’s wrong.
I’ve been telling my girlfriends all weekend to tell men they think are good men to do this. Honestly I expect most of these guys my friends deal with to laugh and refuse, to refute that this is even a thing that happens. But I hope they do & that these “good guys” actually do it. And that they LEARN from it.
The first person I think of who is a self-described feminist is my dad. One a macro/social justice level he is awesome - vehemently supports women’s rights and shows it with actions, i.e. he served as president of the board of planned parenthood for several years when I was growing up. However, I find that when it comes to interpersonal relationships with women, he does not act like a feminist - he hears me and me mom out and is respectful regarding feminist concerns and philosophical discussions but doesn’t practice what he preaches when it comes to actions within female relationships like me and my mom. Other self described feminist men I’ve met throughout my life are like the male therapist colleagues i have worked with - well meaning but at the end of the day are more interested in hearing themselves and doling out advice rather than actually listening.
Random question i have that would interest me as a discussion here or in the future: my partner stopped maintaining his physical appearance (stopped exercising and has a poor diet with lots of sugar) after we got married and I’m no longer physically attracted to him - i actually do still think he’s handsome but his body turns me off sexually - since obviously I don’t want to do what men do and body shame him, what’s a feminist/respectful/considerate way to bring this up with him?
Research shows that intentional weight loss is almost always ineffective long-term and usually results in gaining more weight than was initially lost. There is no way feminist/respectful/considerate way to recommend someone lose weight, no matter their gender. I would recommend learning more about fat liberation. It is sometimes possible to shift your physical attractions and become more attracted to fat people over time. If that doesn't work for you and if sex is a requirement for you in marriage, you may have to leave him. That said, there is no guarantee that if you met someone else, they would stay thin forever. Also, stopping exercising and eating lots of sugar, though possibly correlated with weight gain, are not necessarily the cause of weight gain. There are fat people who exercise a lot and eat no or very little sugar and are still fat, because body diversity is natural and normal. I do hope that Zawn writes a post about this topic. One of my favorite podcasts, re: fatness is called Unsolicited: Fatties Talk Back; I would recommend giving that a listen.
1. It almost always feels performative, like he's trying to gain something, or he's doing it to humour women or because he knows he's "supposed" to, not because he genuinely believes it. I know very few men who would willingly give up privilege and power.
I've also noticed self described feminist men seem to enthusiastically be in support of liberal feminism, especially when it benefit individual women and has little effect on them, but have no interest in the liberation of women from mals violence. It reminds me a little of the White Ribbon Foundation in Australia, they came under fire a few years ago for being run by a bunch of men who were very self congratulatory about how great they were for "raising awareness" about domestic violence
In reference to prompt #1, this is something I struggle with most, especially lately. For context, I am recently single again after a six year relationship. Every relationship with a man I’ve had has exposed deeply rooted sexist ideas, often showing up after months or years of vetting only to find out their beliefs and values were all lies. Every single one. I have found some of the worst were the ones screaming from rooftops to all who would listen, mostly on social media, that they were feminists and the most progressive people. Yet, in our relationship they were some of the most misogynistic men I had ever met in every way. It was almost as if they used their progressive titles as a way to get with more women. They were assholes if I showed any emotions, if I had an original idea or goal, or said no to any kind of sexual advances that made me uncomfortable. Each time, they were jealous souls of my hobbies and life outside of them and often trying to compete. Each time, they would openly talk about me and other women in degrading ways with their “bros” and laugh. Each time, they would mansplain their little hearts out in every situation and didn’t give my intelligence any respect. The curious thing is each one cheated and would blame me and other women they have dated for those mistakes.
Being back to single life has me so conflicted. I want a partner in life. I have two very close male friends. One is the only pure, genuine man I have ever met. I can’t even think of anything sexist that he has ever done or said. In fact, we talk about this stuff often and he listens and acknowledges the massive cultural blind spots. He’s definitely not one of those guys who say, “but not all men” and he will be the first to say, “nope, men in fact do suck.” I appreciate him. My other friend still leans a bit on the sexist side. He has come a long way in recognizing the inherent biases that even he has exemplified throughout his life. Naturally, I don’t confide in him as much but I do call him out when he’s being closed minded and he listens, not argues. With that said, it gives me such a small glimmer of hope that maybe sometime in this lifetime I just might meet a wonderful man that doesn’t prove to be so disgusting once I'm locked in with them. But it’s such a small glimmer… I’m absolutely terrified to get to know someone again and put any faith into them. Dating sites are atrocious. I see a theme with politics these days and those labeled conservative will lie and say they are liberal to get a swipe. Those labeled as liberal seem to be looking for a sugar momma and have no ambition, which really pisses me off because it gives liberals a bad reputation. It’s like the twilight zone on those sites.
I gotta say that my experience with men in feminism has been Not Great. I mostly see men complaining that we don't talk about men enough. I see men creating false equivalences about how men suffer under the patriarchy compared to how women suffer. I see a lot of men acting like being anti-capitalism is the same as being feminist. I see men consistently fail to understand that women are scared. I see a lot of "I'm sorry you felt that way" non-apologies when women speak up to educate them about something they asked to be educated about. I see a lot men who mostly just want to assert that they are A Good Person and aggressively evade deeper reflection. I still see plenty of gender essentialism everywhere. And I still see men in feminism argue, in all seriousness, that the majority men just can't be expected to care about women as people and feminism should persuade men purely on the basis of its benefits to men.
I love the info that low-value men will use neurodivergence as a smokescreen for their sexist BS.
My husband does this. He has ADHD, he can't possibly be expected to pull his equitable weight around the house! He sucks at communicating and has severe anger issues (he gets furious at our cats for...behaving like cats for fuck's sake, and is waspish with me when I tell him not to yell at them). Won't seek treatment, and won't try medication after one (1) attempt fell through.
He constantly tells me to remind him to do things, and swear to God it sounds like he's issuing orders, not making a request. I'm not his secretary or his personal assistant, so I don’t remind him. Plus I carry 99% of the mental load already; fuck that. So when he inevitably forgets to do the thing, it's my fault for not reminding him. 🙃
I'd honestly love a divorce, but I was dumb and ignored all my instincts and not only married him, I bought a house with him. I can't afford the down-payment on another house after sinking so much of my savings in to this one, and I have too many rescue animals for most places to rent to me. I feel so stuck 😪
And then the good times roll around where the man I thought I married makes an appearance, and I feel so conflicted about thinking this way. It's exhausting.
I'm really sorry you're in this situation. I hope you are able to get out somehow and take your pets with you or rehome them to non-abusive homes (as painful as that would be) maybe even just temporarily until you can get out. Though pets are obviously not human children, they are vulnerable beings with very little power and no choice of where they live or who they live with, and they need humans to keep them safe from abuse however and whenever possible.
With people who blow hot and cold, I find it helpful to think of them as primarily their worst behavior. So, that's the real person, and pleasant times are just weird blips that can't be relied upon to ever happen again.
It really helps with feeling conflicted when they behave nicely for a few days. That's not them. The nasty person you deal with most of the time is the real them.
I'm not sure where you are, but where I live in the UK there are charities which foster pets for people in DV situations- maybe there would be something similar for you if you needed it for a little while?
Regarding #1, I don't think I have ever encountered a truly feminist man. Probably listening to Zawn's husband on the podcasts is as close as I've ever gotten.
For #2, the most helpful posts have been what an abusive man will do when you say you're leaving, and the one about how to tell whether he's truly changed.
I also just wanted to take this opportunity to acknowledge all of the commenters...those of you who have been through these experiences and can speak personally about it is so validating to us who are (unfortunately) still very much in it. Thank you all so much, and thanks a million to Zawn for the important work you're doing here. 💛
On feminist men - there’s a big difference between men who see women as actual human beings worthy of dignity and respect (aka the bare minimum), and men who are actively doing the work (on themselves and more broadly) to dismantle the system that benefits them. The later is basically a unicorn. And after being married to someone who obsessively shared feminist memes but now only pays child support cos it’s garnished from his wages, men self-IDing as feminist gives me the ick.
The article that I think about the most is the “maybe he’s neurodivergent” one. I see this so much as an excuse for men’s unacceptable behaviour and the article really nails why it’s so wrong on so many levels.
The posts about the intersection of patriarchy and abuse have been the most interesting and helpful to me.
The one she wrote about how we need to not give men the benefit of doubt and instead of letting them in and watching for red flags we need to keep them at arms length until we see some green flags. ❤️❤️ BRILLIANT!! I wish I had seen writing like this in my 20s and 30s.
Although I have to admit as soon as I didn’t need a man to split the rent with me I instantly became uninterested in dealing with them at all.
It wasn’t until I didn’t need one that I realized I don’t actually want one.
This post really sticks with me. The bits around victim blaming feeling like empowerment
https://open.substack.com/pub/zawn/p/why-experts-give-women-marriage-advice?r=2it7&utm_medium=ios
Oops - forgot the link in my first post
Yep that’s a good one too, and did you know that love languages book was written by a pastor? So it’s just more patriarchal woo woo
That explains why an old coworker who was a fundamentalist Christian, kept telling me (unprompted) to read it.
Yeah! Absolutely wild isn’t it?! My fave U.K. dating and feminist influencer @lalalaletmeexplain did an episode on Love Languages on her old podcast last year: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3x3KuMYfMBjja0uqGLZgo9?si=rUPK4D_bQ0uif9DuaLVdSA
And the one outlining the reasons to avoid marriage should be available to women of all ages, everywhere. I had never seen this addressed so eloquently, and convincingly, before and I wish I had had access to it when I was 20. At least it will prevent me from making another grievous mistake at 60. And hopefully, my mother at 83.
Hello everyone! Thank you so much for this safe space, Zawn, and all of your incredible work. If it’s okay, I’d like to use this opportunity to ask you ladies your thoughts on my situation. It’s a bit of a long one so I really appreciate you reading.🙏🏽
My partner and I were dating when I was 23 years old - over 11 years ago now. He’s 9 years older than me. There were so many red flags in those early days but I was young and naive and didn’t know better. Anyhow, 5 months in, I fell pregnant. Bear in mind, I am from a Pakistani Muslim background so this is the ‘worst thing’ that could have happened to me. We felt we had no choice but to marry so we did, and he moved across the country to be with me. All the time we were dating, he wasn’t working, wasn’t pursuing any hobbies and wasn’t even looking for work. I was an entrepreneur/in the final year of getting my degree and it was my money that supported us. Moving in together, he was very emotionally and psychologically abusive towards me - even while I was pregnant. His family never taught him basic life skills like cooking, cleaning, tidying up after himself.. so all of this was also on me. However, once our son was born, he was very hands on with parenting and did a lot in terms of looking after the baby. Yet still no job, no income from him. I continued on with my small business, doing quite well. We moved countries, moved back again, had to move in with parents etc etc. Still, he wouldn’t work, no income from him. Come 2016, he had decided he wanted to move abroad to his parents homeland, but then I fell pregnant again. We decided we would go anyway. I had recently graduated from an online course in digital marketing and was working hard to get clients. He again, wasn’t working, or doing much of anything to be honest. We got a loan, used it to move countries. He managed to secure a couple of clients out there (under the illusion of it being ‘our’ business) but it was me, slogging my guts out and doing all the work while heavily pregnant in a brand new country with a toddler to take care of. He still wasn’t doing much of anything, although he was good with our son.
Second child was born, we grew really far apart, I had expat depression and I started resenting him deeply. I told him I wanted to leave him and come back to the uk with our children, he cried and begged me, telling me that he was so close to a breakthrough and he just needed a few more months to get started on building a business, creating an income for the family. I stayed. We came back to the Uk on holiday, and I told him I wasn’t going back until he started making some money. This was in 2018, almost 6 years ago.
We now have three children. We’re still in the U.K. The birth of my third child in the pandemic ended a lot of work for me, so since 2021 we have had no income. He has never worked. Never brought in any money. We rely on benefits to get by. I have my small business and other projects that bring in pocket money, but I don’t have the time or space to go all in on anything. I try my best but to my detriment, as the majority of the household labour is also on me - actually all of it. Once in a while he’ll wash the dishes or hang the clothes.
He has changed over the years. We have a spiritual path and we’re both very aligned in terms of that, and our interests. He is no longer emotionally manipulative or abusive. But his energy, his lack of enthusiasm for finding work or doing something he loves, kills me. He is always full of ideas, talking about how he’s going to do this and that, he gets all excited and riled up… but it amounts to nothing. No action. He does work on himself - he prays, meditates, journals. He’s a very calm, patient and kind person. He helps with the kids a lot. But every time I try to bring up my needs or anything with him about the relationship, he shuts down. In the past he has told me I’m to blame for how he is. Now, whenever I try to approach a conversation about our relationship, he sees it as an attack on him. Even when I’ve hardly even said anything.
He is 44 years old. In our 11 years of marriage he has never had an income. We have 3 children who we are now “homeschooling’ which is also on me. I have so much on my plate already that the kids pretty much do their own thing all day. He has our children believing that we are moving abroad soon, and we’re going to live the life of our dreams, yet he doesn’t take any action towards it. The kids are so excited, always talking about it and that also kills me because I’m like “is this actually going to happen”. In recent days, he has decided on what he is going to do to bring in money, but blames our situation for not having the time and space to do anything or to get started.
I have wanted to leave so many times. We’re in a shit load of debt and have no income (although I try with the very limited time I get alone which is just a few hours a week to do what I can). Not to toot my own horn, but I am skilled, talented and have expertise in numerous areas. I could create an amazing income for the family if I didn’t have to do everything else. But he doesn’t know how to do everything else, and he wants to be the one to create the income. Leaving me stuck.
Like I said, he helps with the kids. Gets them ready for bed, gives them breakfast, changes a nappy or two. He drives and handles everything to do with the car. 2 of our children have some health issues so he handles prescriptions and appointments. And his elderly parents live nearby, his dad is sick and he often helps them too. His parents help us so much financially and always have (which I feel so bad and guilty for).
I honestly do not know what to do, with no income and nowhere to go. I don’t know how to have a conversation with him about any of this because he just shuts me down. I don’t want to knock his confidence at the moment with how excited and adamant he is on getting started on the new latest project to bring in an income, by saying anything. I don’t know whether to give him an ultimatum. I just feel like time and life is being wasted and nothing ever changes. I feel like all of this is negatively impacting the children’s lives too. It’s like we’ve been living in limbo for so long. I don’t know whether I expect too much? I know it sounds crazy. Because me and him have a pretty decent friendship. We can talk about pretty much anything on a deep level (apart from our relationship, aha!). He does so much more for our children than I have ever seen any man in my own immediate family do. He is very peaceful, centred, calm and self-aware - these are not traits you don’t find very often, and I often tell myself that I should count myself lucky. I just don’t know whether I want or expect too much from him. He has suffered from severe depression in the past and I believe it has lingered in him ever since I’ve known him, resulting in him being stuck in the freeze response.
Life is okay, generally. But I know I don’t want okay. I want amazing.
So that’s my question. Am I expecting too much? Should I even broach the subject of having a conversation with him, knowing that it will most likely result in him shutting down and going back to square 1? What would you do in this situation? I don’t want to hurt him or be unkind or be the reason that he believes he is incapable of doing anything. I know other women wouldn’t have stood for this for so long but I feel stuck because I genuinely do believe he is a good person with a kind heart and a pure soul but I feel like I’m ready to leave. Or ask him to leave.
If you can, please help. Any advice appreciated.💛
It doesn’t look like he has much incentive to change anything.
Yep this works just fine for him. She either needs to leave and leave the kids with him, or stop doing literally everything so he has to. Why would he do anything if she’s doing it all already?
In recent times, he has started doing a little more - I guess because he senses something in me has changed. He gives the kids breakfast, makes sure they are ready for the day and has washed the dishes more times in the last 2 weeks, than he has in this whole 11 years. Our 2 boys also have health issues, he helps get them ready for bed and deals with their health stuff mostly. I dunno if that’s enough 🤷🏽♀️
I feel for you. You are not in an equal partnership. I don't see this getting better for you. As said already - this works for him, for whatever reason, to commit to doing nothing with his life - except breadcrumb you and his children. The fact he's selling them on dreams - as it seems he has done with you - is quite sad. I've watched family members promising their children certain events and having the promise unfulfilled. Over time it has created deep insecurity and anxiety. Ensuring your children eat, and get to school every day is the bare minimum, and he does not deserve to be congratulated for assisting in that happening.
A man who allows his wife to suffer emotionally in silence while he does nothing is not a good person.
I only know what you've written here but the kids who are old enough to be in public schools need to go to public school. This will free you up to work a job to bring in income and you should have him start seeing a psychiatrist for mental health. He is unlikely to change at this point. You need to decide if this friendship you have with him and what he does with the kids outweighs his inability/unwillingness to work. You are doing too much and he's doing below the bare minimum. Get your financial ducks in a row and leave him.
Thank you, Misti. He’s had therapy, coaching, counselling, at least 5 different people offering to help him start a business and guide him day by day. But nothing has changed his state of inaction. It’s like her has no spark in him, let alone a fire.
You married a NEET? I am so sorry!! I guess I just don’t understand why you have to do the homeschooling. If this man hasn’t had a job in almost 10 years what does he do all day? I have to assume you aren’t having sex with him because I can’t imagine being able to conjure up desire for a grown teenage slacker.
It’s more like 15+ years since he hasn’t had a job, I’m not sure exactly. I’ve never known him as a working man. I didn’t really know him enough before we got married to be honest.
And definitely NO to the latter part. It’s been a good long while.😅
You can think someone is a good person and still know that you don’t want to share your life with him anymore.
We don’t have to hate someone to realize they are blocking us from living the life we deserve to live.
He sounds like a man I dated. Full of dreams and wanting adventure, never able to work for it.
This thing he is doing to you and the kids with moving (and with his magical next job thing), is called future-faking. They do this to keep women trapped. He gets you to dream of his future with him, but he never actually creates that future. Either YOU create it for him while he does nothing and to falls apart, or nothing happens at all. He wants YOU to arrange his next adventure - moving abroad - for him. So he can have fun. And he’s got the kids excited in order to pressure you to make it happen for him.
Same with his supposed job thing - he’s got you buying into his potential so you won’t leave or change the marriage. And you feel like he deserves one more chance. But nothing will come of this either. He’s got a sweet deal. He doesn’t work. He doesn’t educate his kids. He doesn’t do much of anything except dream. You do it all, and he plays.
It’s ok to start living your own life. You’ll get so much farther. Maybe put the kids in school and start doing your own work again. See how it feels. Don’t move abroad. Enjoy some time to think and accomplish instead of scrambling to move and pack and unpack and find doctors and houses and schools. And see how that feels. Moving steals about 12-18 months of a woman’s life and potential. I know because my ex moved us constantly. All I did was pack and unpack and find doctors and houses and settle kids who were upset with change and find friends and routines just to leave them again. It’s really nice to stay put and stop making their dreams happen for them.
Maybe start making your own dreams happen for you instead.
Thank you SO much for this comment. You have said everything I was thinking but needed to hear. 🙏🏽
Someone can be a lovely person and not right for you.
If you picture your lives diverging - is it better with or without him?
You are not required to be his forever cheerleader. You’re not the owner of his emotions or responses. If he believes he’s incapable of doing anything, then he needs to work on that.
It’s amazing to have someone in your corner, but I’d never use someone as a crutch for that long especially when I can see they’re drowning.
Thank you, Em.
I definitely see and feel a life better without him as my husband. Not without him altogether. He went abroad earlier this year for 2 months with my eldest child - and although I did kinda miss him, I felt like a massive weight had been lifted and I felt freer. His energy in the home is heavy - I don't think he realises it at all though.
Are you mistaking him as calm and self aware when actually he's pretty passive and delusional?
I hear your kind heart in your post but this has been weaponised against you for so long. Any action you have tried to take to move the status quo or shift things/him towards motivation has led to you being made to feel bad. Your empathy is being used against you.
Without a doubt this man will not change. He has absolutely no incentive to. He has too much comfort, power and leisure to lose. The comment above about future faking is so accurate. He doesn't have to do anything to fulfil his goals because he has manipulated you to help him stay comfortable in the fantasy that one day they will be fulfilled, which is ultimately based on delusion and pipe dreams.
This is safer and much more comfortable for him than the risk of trying and failing. Having you underachieve and not continue to accomplish your goals outside of the restrictive family environment is also functional for him. Seeing you successful is too abrasive to his own unacknowledged insecurities and inadequacies. You must be kept small so his smallness isn't as noticeable.
I don't say this with any malice, but this is not actually a reflective or self aware man. He is passive, safety seeking, unambitious and defended. He can't seem to apply himself to endeavours or seek real adventure that would rely on him being successful (rather than you) because he appears to lack self efficacy and fears failure.
Your life without him would be hard work but no more so than with him. You could pursue fulfilling ways to earn income from a career that plays to your strengths without the envy of an idle man holding you back. Languishing in his dreams trumps you comfort or happiness. Zawn might call this a form of abuse.
I read his commitment to the children, he can continue to do that as a present co-parenting father without your supervision. His parents will no doubt continue to help him and your children - and maybe you too as the mother of their grandchildren. And you, my friend, you will experience a new kind of freedom. The freedom to choose 💜
You have said it all, Chris. Thank you so much.
After reading everyone's comments, I actually wrote my letter to him last night telling him I want to end the relationship (because I feel this is the only way I can fully share everything I have experienced with him and feel) and all day today I have been questioning myself again.
But after reading what you wrote here... wow. This is it. This is exactly it. Somehow throughout the last 11 years I have done the most incredible things and have achieved so much, without him ever really celebrating me or encouraging me. Since having our third child, I feel like his energy has slowly sucked the life and energy out of me too. I have BIG dreams but no time and space to make them happen because of him. Despite that, I push through and do as much as I can in the scraps of time and space that I get while he continues to talk about all the things he needs to do and will do, but never takes any action while also preventing me from taking the action I am so desperate to take. I'm just so so tired of trying to push through now. I'm actually sick of it and in my heart, this marriage is done. Thank you for helping me to see more clearly. 💛
You are doing it! So proud of you. You can absolutely do this <3
I'm not a lady (I'm non-binary), but I just want to push back a bit on "He is no longer emotionally manipulative or abusive." Him not doing his fair share of labor (both within the house and financially) to make your household equitable qualifies as abuse, in my opinion. I'm sorry you're in this situation. You are not expecting too much. You deserve so much better. Zawn's research has shown that almost no women regret leaving their marriages. Another life is possible for you and your children. I'm sure you don't want your children to learn that it's okay for men to do exploit their female partners. You said the situation is already negatively affecting them. One of Zawn's pieces says people do not have the right to subject their children to abuse if they are able to leave the abusive environment. Your children (edit to clarify: all children) have extremely little power in society and that includes not being able to choose who they live with and which adults they interact with on a regular basis. Therefore it's your responsibility to make their living environment as safe as possible. I believe in you; you've done so much labor already just to survive. When you get away from him, you will only have to do the labor for yourself and your children, no longer will you have to sacrifice your life to carry along a fully-grown man. You said you feel like you're ready to leave or to ask him to leave. I would strongly recommend trusting that <3
Thank you so much, Soren 😭🙏🏽 I honestly would not describe the environment as abusive. Not anymore. But we barely even have a relationship as a couple, we’re like coparents living together in an unequal relationship where his needs are more important than mine.
He has some health issues and I know he is internally not comfortable with our situation and him not taking action. He’s in constant battle with himself. Like, he wants it so bad but he doesn’t do anything about it.
Ahhh there is so much to this that I can’t explain in a comment, but thank you so much for your kind words. I definitely feel like I know what I have to. For me, it is done, even if I haven’t told him yet. 🙏🏽
Number 2:
The posts about holidays. How men ruin them, how men show up and just benefit from the labor (what it’s like to be a father), the posts about how women are mocked for “making a big deal” of holidays.
Definitely timely posts to share in the coming months! Get ppl thinking about their next move after the holidays.
All your articles help me understand patriarchy better and how that results in household labour inequality. This article about patriarchy was really good, particularly the line about hating women is a side effect, not the goal of patriarchy. https://zawn.substack.com/p/were-getting-patriarchy-wrong-correcting
Your podcast with Desiree Stephens was amazing. Anything about decolonization and anti-racism, I'm all over it.
This one was also soooo good because giving shitty m*n "the benefit of the doubt" or a second chance is so ingrained in women. https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-most-powerful-simple-tool-for
Would you consider writing an article on "am I overreacting/asking or expecting too much/am I being unreasonable"? Sorry if you've already done an article on it and I missed it. This idea is slightly different from this article, https://zawn.substack.com/p/no-youre-not-being-hypersensitive which talks moreso about emotions. This question is inspired by Sabah's comment on your current post where she is doing all the work, her husband is doing SOME things, he seems to be a good friend to her, and believes him to be a good person, yet everything is still on her and she's still asking "am I overreacting/expecting too much?" We all know this is not a unique situation. What can we say to women who ask this to help them understand, HELL NO, you are not asking too much/overreacting/being unreasonable but may actually be asking too little, underreacting and being completely reasonable? I would love your take on why we keep asking ourselves questions like this and what we should be asking ourselves instead.
Also this one about loving your abuser. I love how you speak the truth. https://zawn.substack.com/p/why-you-still-love-your-abuser-and
I’m almost certain it was your newsletter where you were talking about how someone asked a man to pay attention to how he reacts when a woman speaks, to count how often he wants to refute something a woman says, or talk over her, or mansplain, or just basically tell her she’s wrong.
I’ve been telling my girlfriends all weekend to tell men they think are good men to do this. Honestly I expect most of these guys my friends deal with to laugh and refuse, to refute that this is even a thing that happens. But I hope they do & that these “good guys” actually do it. And that they LEARN from it.
Maybe you saw that in the FB group - it was a twitter thread that was reposted. I shared it on the FB group :)
The first person I think of who is a self-described feminist is my dad. One a macro/social justice level he is awesome - vehemently supports women’s rights and shows it with actions, i.e. he served as president of the board of planned parenthood for several years when I was growing up. However, I find that when it comes to interpersonal relationships with women, he does not act like a feminist - he hears me and me mom out and is respectful regarding feminist concerns and philosophical discussions but doesn’t practice what he preaches when it comes to actions within female relationships like me and my mom. Other self described feminist men I’ve met throughout my life are like the male therapist colleagues i have worked with - well meaning but at the end of the day are more interested in hearing themselves and doling out advice rather than actually listening.
Random question i have that would interest me as a discussion here or in the future: my partner stopped maintaining his physical appearance (stopped exercising and has a poor diet with lots of sugar) after we got married and I’m no longer physically attracted to him - i actually do still think he’s handsome but his body turns me off sexually - since obviously I don’t want to do what men do and body shame him, what’s a feminist/respectful/considerate way to bring this up with him?
Research shows that intentional weight loss is almost always ineffective long-term and usually results in gaining more weight than was initially lost. There is no way feminist/respectful/considerate way to recommend someone lose weight, no matter their gender. I would recommend learning more about fat liberation. It is sometimes possible to shift your physical attractions and become more attracted to fat people over time. If that doesn't work for you and if sex is a requirement for you in marriage, you may have to leave him. That said, there is no guarantee that if you met someone else, they would stay thin forever. Also, stopping exercising and eating lots of sugar, though possibly correlated with weight gain, are not necessarily the cause of weight gain. There are fat people who exercise a lot and eat no or very little sugar and are still fat, because body diversity is natural and normal. I do hope that Zawn writes a post about this topic. One of my favorite podcasts, re: fatness is called Unsolicited: Fatties Talk Back; I would recommend giving that a listen.
I have actually written a lot about this! https://zawn.substack.com/p/im-not-attracted-to-my-husband-because
1. It almost always feels performative, like he's trying to gain something, or he's doing it to humour women or because he knows he's "supposed" to, not because he genuinely believes it. I know very few men who would willingly give up privilege and power.
I've also noticed self described feminist men seem to enthusiastically be in support of liberal feminism, especially when it benefit individual women and has little effect on them, but have no interest in the liberation of women from mals violence. It reminds me a little of the White Ribbon Foundation in Australia, they came under fire a few years ago for being run by a bunch of men who were very self congratulatory about how great they were for "raising awareness" about domestic violence
In reference to prompt #1, this is something I struggle with most, especially lately. For context, I am recently single again after a six year relationship. Every relationship with a man I’ve had has exposed deeply rooted sexist ideas, often showing up after months or years of vetting only to find out their beliefs and values were all lies. Every single one. I have found some of the worst were the ones screaming from rooftops to all who would listen, mostly on social media, that they were feminists and the most progressive people. Yet, in our relationship they were some of the most misogynistic men I had ever met in every way. It was almost as if they used their progressive titles as a way to get with more women. They were assholes if I showed any emotions, if I had an original idea or goal, or said no to any kind of sexual advances that made me uncomfortable. Each time, they were jealous souls of my hobbies and life outside of them and often trying to compete. Each time, they would openly talk about me and other women in degrading ways with their “bros” and laugh. Each time, they would mansplain their little hearts out in every situation and didn’t give my intelligence any respect. The curious thing is each one cheated and would blame me and other women they have dated for those mistakes.
Being back to single life has me so conflicted. I want a partner in life. I have two very close male friends. One is the only pure, genuine man I have ever met. I can’t even think of anything sexist that he has ever done or said. In fact, we talk about this stuff often and he listens and acknowledges the massive cultural blind spots. He’s definitely not one of those guys who say, “but not all men” and he will be the first to say, “nope, men in fact do suck.” I appreciate him. My other friend still leans a bit on the sexist side. He has come a long way in recognizing the inherent biases that even he has exemplified throughout his life. Naturally, I don’t confide in him as much but I do call him out when he’s being closed minded and he listens, not argues. With that said, it gives me such a small glimmer of hope that maybe sometime in this lifetime I just might meet a wonderful man that doesn’t prove to be so disgusting once I'm locked in with them. But it’s such a small glimmer… I’m absolutely terrified to get to know someone again and put any faith into them. Dating sites are atrocious. I see a theme with politics these days and those labeled conservative will lie and say they are liberal to get a swipe. Those labeled as liberal seem to be looking for a sugar momma and have no ambition, which really pisses me off because it gives liberals a bad reputation. It’s like the twilight zone on those sites.
I gotta say that my experience with men in feminism has been Not Great. I mostly see men complaining that we don't talk about men enough. I see men creating false equivalences about how men suffer under the patriarchy compared to how women suffer. I see a lot of men acting like being anti-capitalism is the same as being feminist. I see men consistently fail to understand that women are scared. I see a lot of "I'm sorry you felt that way" non-apologies when women speak up to educate them about something they asked to be educated about. I see a lot men who mostly just want to assert that they are A Good Person and aggressively evade deeper reflection. I still see plenty of gender essentialism everywhere. And I still see men in feminism argue, in all seriousness, that the majority men just can't be expected to care about women as people and feminism should persuade men purely on the basis of its benefits to men.
“Aggressively evade deeper reflection.” That part. Such an important point. I *really* hate that shit.
All of this! Great synopsis 😊
Vent incoming
I love the info that low-value men will use neurodivergence as a smokescreen for their sexist BS.
My husband does this. He has ADHD, he can't possibly be expected to pull his equitable weight around the house! He sucks at communicating and has severe anger issues (he gets furious at our cats for...behaving like cats for fuck's sake, and is waspish with me when I tell him not to yell at them). Won't seek treatment, and won't try medication after one (1) attempt fell through.
He constantly tells me to remind him to do things, and swear to God it sounds like he's issuing orders, not making a request. I'm not his secretary or his personal assistant, so I don’t remind him. Plus I carry 99% of the mental load already; fuck that. So when he inevitably forgets to do the thing, it's my fault for not reminding him. 🙃
I'd honestly love a divorce, but I was dumb and ignored all my instincts and not only married him, I bought a house with him. I can't afford the down-payment on another house after sinking so much of my savings in to this one, and I have too many rescue animals for most places to rent to me. I feel so stuck 😪
And then the good times roll around where the man I thought I married makes an appearance, and I feel so conflicted about thinking this way. It's exhausting.
I'm really sorry you're in this situation. I hope you are able to get out somehow and take your pets with you or rehome them to non-abusive homes (as painful as that would be) maybe even just temporarily until you can get out. Though pets are obviously not human children, they are vulnerable beings with very little power and no choice of where they live or who they live with, and they need humans to keep them safe from abuse however and whenever possible.
With people who blow hot and cold, I find it helpful to think of them as primarily their worst behavior. So, that's the real person, and pleasant times are just weird blips that can't be relied upon to ever happen again.
It really helps with feeling conflicted when they behave nicely for a few days. That's not them. The nasty person you deal with most of the time is the real them.
I'm not sure where you are, but where I live in the UK there are charities which foster pets for people in DV situations- maybe there would be something similar for you if you needed it for a little while?
Regarding #1, I don't think I have ever encountered a truly feminist man. Probably listening to Zawn's husband on the podcasts is as close as I've ever gotten.
For #2, the most helpful posts have been what an abusive man will do when you say you're leaving, and the one about how to tell whether he's truly changed.
I also just wanted to take this opportunity to acknowledge all of the commenters...those of you who have been through these experiences and can speak personally about it is so validating to us who are (unfortunately) still very much in it. Thank you all so much, and thanks a million to Zawn for the important work you're doing here. 💛
On feminist men - there’s a big difference between men who see women as actual human beings worthy of dignity and respect (aka the bare minimum), and men who are actively doing the work (on themselves and more broadly) to dismantle the system that benefits them. The later is basically a unicorn. And after being married to someone who obsessively shared feminist memes but now only pays child support cos it’s garnished from his wages, men self-IDing as feminist gives me the ick.
The article that I think about the most is the “maybe he’s neurodivergent” one. I see this so much as an excuse for men’s unacceptable behaviour and the article really nails why it’s so wrong on so many levels.
I have found your recent posts about controlling and patriarchal parents/families so helpful