I love Beth Berry's Mother Worthy circles from Revolution From Home. I've completed two year-long circles of Mother Worthy and I've been to her summer retreat twice. I'm thrilled to read your positive description and approval of her. I completely agree, she is an equal in the circle and always quotes from various other books and writers. It's not culty at all.
She seems really lovely. Her approach is different from mine, and she uses language that is outside of my worldview, but she is out there in the trenches doing the work, and for that I love her.
Arbitrary time pressure that encourages a response based on fear of missing out vs making a sometimes slow informed decision. It’s different from time based things like a temporary sale or a real deadline (like for a specific event). If the body feeling is anxious, that’s a good flag to step back and critique what’s happening.
As a feminist loss parent who has spent time in Buddhisty spaces, I have appreciated the stories of Tara Brach (who had a miscarriage) and Lama Tsultrim Allione (who lost an infant to SIDS). Both relay very problematic responses to their losses from supposedly spiritual men. I agree that telling a grieving loss parent that they’re either doing grief wrong or spirituality wrong if they’re hurting is a red flag. A healthy community should help carry and heal the hurt, not make it worse.
I appreciate where you're coming from but I don't think teal swan is the best example of a scammer. She has hundreds of free videos offering her insight on various topics that are designed to help others. Her Facebook and instagram pages are not the main hub for her work, her youtube channel and website is. She's been accused of being a cult leader many times over and i feel like it's just another case of men trying to slam a woman for her greatness. Btw I have never bought anything from her but i just wanted to share.
I think a lot of people are jealous of her beauty and success and theyre trying to pull her down. She's not responsible for people who take her work out of context.
Two men made a documentary on teal to prove that she's a cult leader and they repeatedly edited footage of her to make her look like a bad person (teal showed the unedited footage to prove this).
People just don't like her and it's easy to spread gossip and create hateful energy around someone esp a woman you don't even know. They also do it to fullyrawkristina, a raw foods influencer. You should see the things they say about these women on message boards. I'm not about to join into the misogynistic tomato throwing.
P.S. here is a video she made responding to allegations made against her:
Teal Swan definitely is a dangerous cult leader, and is ticking all the boxes, if you actually start to really study the red flags of cults and self-proclaimed gurus (which I did quite a bit). Majority of her teachings is pseudoscientific psychobabble, which is harmful. Of course it is mixed with some useful tips, as is always the case (in the same way as abusive relationships are not all bad).
That’s a very welcome and evergreen post, Zawn. Thank you!
Social media in particular created a fertile ground for all sorts of grifters, Multi-Level-Marketing zombies and snake-oil peddlers. So so it’s helpful to see the examples of their tricks so one can learn to recognise the patterns.
As a person who credits a lot of personal growth and healing to yoga and mindfulness practices, I was disappointed to see that even martial arts space is affected. I recently stumbled across seemingly esteemed TaiChi (or equivalent) master who, after some digging around turned out to be claiming that a combination of herbal medicine and mindfulness cured her of cancer 🤢.
Don’t get me started on ‘manifestation’. If anyone wants to unpack the BS behind this concept while having a good cackle, I recommend an episode of If Books Could Kill (The Secret):
Speaking of snake oil, did you listen to the episode of Maintenance Phase (also co-hosted by Michael Hobbes) where Aubrey Gordon explains the history of snake oil and how it actually DOES work but white people (of course) co-opted it? Fascinating listen if you haven't heard it yet. And I also am a big fan of IBCK too!
Thank you for speaking out on this topic, it needs to be spoken about more, so important. I have been part of two spiritual groups over the years and it was very harmful for me.
I want to say that any spiritual program with a tuition over $10K is likely not worth it, if not an outright scam. I believe in people getting paid for their work, but that seems excessive.
I could see, say, a six month program of intensive counseling from a trained and qualified person warranting that. Or even three months. But these people are paying $10k for weekends with people who don't know shit about shit.
I think there's also often an element of "The Man/mainstream science/mainstream media etc. DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW" xyz thing works - because if everyone knew our thing really works, society as we know it would be revolutionized/cease to exist!" or something to that effect. Painting oneself in opposition to "institutions" in general, capitalizing on people's genuine and warranted frustrations with said institutions. Complaining about "being silenced" by mainstream media. Maintenance Phase said it so well when they talked about people who push supplements as cure-alls as opposed to pharmaceuticals. "You're just substituting one corrupt billion-dollar industry for another."
Although I think “they” (whoever they are lol) don’t actually want us reading Zawn’s work and divorcing shitty partners and cackling off into the sunset happily…Society would fall apart as we know it if women vacated relationships with men en masse! Oh the horror! So “they” keep feeding us a steady diet of BS Disney stories and romantic movies and songs and messages in childhood about gender roles / marriage and pop culture nonsense and bad Slate advice, and keeping us distracted with body image issues and eating disorders …because a woman whose head is filled with of diet culture, and/or who is worked into the ground by capitalism, or by her partner and kids…will have little time/space / desire to smash the patriarchy.
Must be a conspiracy!! I suppose when it’s been going on for 7000 years it no longer looks like one and just looks like the water we fish are swimming in…I’ve been reading a bit more of the history of patriarchy and it’s origins and interesting to know that there was a kind of systematic and deliberate way to make women subservient through laws/codes that removed the right of women to own land /property, to have claim to ancestral homelands etc etc. Amazing to contemplate that maybe there was possibly a time long ago in some lands far away that something like a matriarchy existed.
In some countries, like my country of origin (India), I’m sure “they” don’t want women to know all this stuff. Thank the lord we don’t live there anymore and that I found Zawn’s work - this stuff would be banned reading in many households there..
But anyway, that was just a semi non serious string of thought prompted by your note about self-help influencers positioning themselves as anti-establishment. The real anti-establishment stuff (like Zawn’s work) is where we should be taking notes and shouting from the rooftops
I love Beth Berry's Mother Worthy circles from Revolution From Home. I've completed two year-long circles of Mother Worthy and I've been to her summer retreat twice. I'm thrilled to read your positive description and approval of her. I completely agree, she is an equal in the circle and always quotes from various other books and writers. It's not culty at all.
She seems really lovely. Her approach is different from mine, and she uses language that is outside of my worldview, but she is out there in the trenches doing the work, and for that I love her.
Arbitrary time pressure that encourages a response based on fear of missing out vs making a sometimes slow informed decision. It’s different from time based things like a temporary sale or a real deadline (like for a specific event). If the body feeling is anxious, that’s a good flag to step back and critique what’s happening.
Yes! That’s a great one. I find myself immediately stopping on anything that says I must make a decision right now.
As a feminist loss parent who has spent time in Buddhisty spaces, I have appreciated the stories of Tara Brach (who had a miscarriage) and Lama Tsultrim Allione (who lost an infant to SIDS). Both relay very problematic responses to their losses from supposedly spiritual men. I agree that telling a grieving loss parent that they’re either doing grief wrong or spirituality wrong if they’re hurting is a red flag. A healthy community should help carry and heal the hurt, not make it worse.
I appreciate where you're coming from but I don't think teal swan is the best example of a scammer. She has hundreds of free videos offering her insight on various topics that are designed to help others. Her Facebook and instagram pages are not the main hub for her work, her youtube channel and website is. She's been accused of being a cult leader many times over and i feel like it's just another case of men trying to slam a woman for her greatness. Btw I have never bought anything from her but i just wanted to share.
Here's a great guide to the myriad ways she has harmed her followers https://teamcoco.com/podcasts/scam-goddess/episodes/the-culty-con-of-teal-swan-w-sarah-marshall
I think a lot of people are jealous of her beauty and success and theyre trying to pull her down. She's not responsible for people who take her work out of context.
Two men made a documentary on teal to prove that she's a cult leader and they repeatedly edited footage of her to make her look like a bad person (teal showed the unedited footage to prove this).
People just don't like her and it's easy to spread gossip and create hateful energy around someone esp a woman you don't even know. They also do it to fullyrawkristina, a raw foods influencer. You should see the things they say about these women on message boards. I'm not about to join into the misogynistic tomato throwing.
P.S. here is a video she made responding to allegations made against her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhwcygYOxOc&t=5897s
I guess I need to clarify that giving things away for free does not make someone not a scammer
Teal Swan definitely is a dangerous cult leader, and is ticking all the boxes, if you actually start to really study the red flags of cults and self-proclaimed gurus (which I did quite a bit). Majority of her teachings is pseudoscientific psychobabble, which is harmful. Of course it is mixed with some useful tips, as is always the case (in the same way as abusive relationships are not all bad).
The whole “visionary” and “thought leader” space gives me the big ick. The aesthetics really tip me off. Close up videos of their faces, etc.
I know of a person who went to “shaman school” and she calls herself a shaman now. This is a white woman. I spit out my drink when I heard this.
That’s a very welcome and evergreen post, Zawn. Thank you!
Social media in particular created a fertile ground for all sorts of grifters, Multi-Level-Marketing zombies and snake-oil peddlers. So so it’s helpful to see the examples of their tricks so one can learn to recognise the patterns.
As a person who credits a lot of personal growth and healing to yoga and mindfulness practices, I was disappointed to see that even martial arts space is affected. I recently stumbled across seemingly esteemed TaiChi (or equivalent) master who, after some digging around turned out to be claiming that a combination of herbal medicine and mindfulness cured her of cancer 🤢.
Don’t get me started on ‘manifestation’. If anyone wants to unpack the BS behind this concept while having a good cackle, I recommend an episode of If Books Could Kill (The Secret):
https://open.spotify.com/episode/70nYfIc81bpYtyiTcDyQCt?si=Byvt3eZ-Rnmh-__N2MM8ug
I love If Books Could Kill! It's such a great podcast.
Ooh, I LOVE podcasts like this! One of my favorites is “A little bit culty”.
https://open.spotify.com/show/1DRST63uFFRTYkUuqWb7Mo?si=Osk3Ou17RIqWGIs5kYLtWQ
Speaking of snake oil, did you listen to the episode of Maintenance Phase (also co-hosted by Michael Hobbes) where Aubrey Gordon explains the history of snake oil and how it actually DOES work but white people (of course) co-opted it? Fascinating listen if you haven't heard it yet. And I also am a big fan of IBCK too!
Thank you for speaking out on this topic, it needs to be spoken about more, so important. I have been part of two spiritual groups over the years and it was very harmful for me.
I want to say that any spiritual program with a tuition over $10K is likely not worth it, if not an outright scam. I believe in people getting paid for their work, but that seems excessive.
I could see, say, a six month program of intensive counseling from a trained and qualified person warranting that. Or even three months. But these people are paying $10k for weekends with people who don't know shit about shit.
I love that as a name for a group of anti-influencers: "People Who Don't Know Shit about Shit."
A group offering no advice about anything, not selling products, just bumbling along in their own messy lives.
I think there's also often an element of "The Man/mainstream science/mainstream media etc. DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW" xyz thing works - because if everyone knew our thing really works, society as we know it would be revolutionized/cease to exist!" or something to that effect. Painting oneself in opposition to "institutions" in general, capitalizing on people's genuine and warranted frustrations with said institutions. Complaining about "being silenced" by mainstream media. Maintenance Phase said it so well when they talked about people who push supplements as cure-alls as opposed to pharmaceuticals. "You're just substituting one corrupt billion-dollar industry for another."
Although I think “they” (whoever they are lol) don’t actually want us reading Zawn’s work and divorcing shitty partners and cackling off into the sunset happily…Society would fall apart as we know it if women vacated relationships with men en masse! Oh the horror! So “they” keep feeding us a steady diet of BS Disney stories and romantic movies and songs and messages in childhood about gender roles / marriage and pop culture nonsense and bad Slate advice, and keeping us distracted with body image issues and eating disorders …because a woman whose head is filled with of diet culture, and/or who is worked into the ground by capitalism, or by her partner and kids…will have little time/space / desire to smash the patriarchy.
Must be a conspiracy!! I suppose when it’s been going on for 7000 years it no longer looks like one and just looks like the water we fish are swimming in…I’ve been reading a bit more of the history of patriarchy and it’s origins and interesting to know that there was a kind of systematic and deliberate way to make women subservient through laws/codes that removed the right of women to own land /property, to have claim to ancestral homelands etc etc. Amazing to contemplate that maybe there was possibly a time long ago in some lands far away that something like a matriarchy existed.
In some countries, like my country of origin (India), I’m sure “they” don’t want women to know all this stuff. Thank the lord we don’t live there anymore and that I found Zawn’s work - this stuff would be banned reading in many households there..
But anyway, that was just a semi non serious string of thought prompted by your note about self-help influencers positioning themselves as anti-establishment. The real anti-establishment stuff (like Zawn’s work) is where we should be taking notes and shouting from the rooftops